RFM Question

[SoCalGirl]

I can't recall the name of the school but I thought there was some smaller school (in the north?) that absolutely guaranteed bids. If a girl is released from all houses the GA forces a chapter to take her anyway.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I can't recall the name of the school but I thought there was some smaller school (in the north?) that absolutely guaranteed bids. If a girl is released from all houses the GA forces a chapter to take her anyway.

Tufts.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Seems like they are moving up the date that the sorority is making a commitment. Suppose that the sorority finds out the bad information about the PNM just after the bid day party instead of just after the pref party. At that point, the sorority is stuck, and will have to go through whatever its procedures are for removing a NM. Guaranteed placement means that the sorority is committed to the PNM at the pref list point rather than the bid list point.

I think you are missing the point. The assumption is that the pref list = bid list. They have likely not thought about what would happen if that assumption turns out to be false.

[DubaiSis]

But I think people are discussing this worst case scenario as a fairly plausible option. Although it is POSSIBLE that a chapter could find out something heinous between inviting a girl to preference and completing the final bid list, that is not at all likely. Not liking her dress at preference or the girl burped unattractively is not going to be a good enough reason to pass muster with your headquarters or panhel.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

But I think people are discussing this worst case scenario as a fairly plausible option. Although it is POSSIBLE that a chapter could find out something heinous between inviting a girl to preference and completing the final bid list, that is not at all likely. Not liking her dress at preference or the girl burped unattractively is not going to be a good enough reason to pass muster with your headquarters or panhel.

You know what's not uncommon, though? A girl getting invited to one house she likes and one she doesn't, and acting like a total asshole at the latter.

[pinapple]

Haha...so true DeltaBetaBaby....

But she if house 2 left her off their bid list I suspect she would be somewhere on her #1s.

I don't disagree that it would be rare that a PNM was left off of a bid list altogether, but in today's world of social media, it doesn't take much for word of bad behavior to spread and spread quickly. 10 years ago it probalby would have never been an issue. Today...it does not take much for PNMs to shoot themselves in the foot. With frats throwing parties left and right, PNMs just don't listen to the warnings to not go. An instagram and 20 minutes later and word gets out.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by pinapple

But can we say even UT has GP if by their own wording, that a girl has to be to on the bid list? If you only have one pref party and a house chooses to NOT place the girl on the bid list, where is the RFM coordinator going to put her? Are they going to force the sorority's hand?

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Seems like they are moving up the date that the sorority is making a commitment. Suppose that the sorority finds out the bad information about the PNM just after the bid day party instead of just after the pref party. At that point, the sorority is stuck, and will have to go through whatever its procedures are for removing a NM. Guaranteed placement means that the sorority is committed to the PNM at the pref list point rather than the bid list point.

This was my understanding, yes. (Of UT, just to double clarify)

[ksu4me]

OK, so I haven’t been on Greekchat since I was a freshman, but I have a question and didn’t know where to get the answer. I tried looking through RFM threads, but didn’t really find an answer.

I thought about changing my username, but given the details it’s not too hard to figure out my university. Trust me--everyone on my campus that cares about the situation is already well aware of it. It’s even all over the “other board”, if you know which one I mean. Still, I’d appreciate it if GC posters would just use the generic tags that I am going to use. I don’t want to aggravate those that already have been hurt by this, and it could happen to any of our organizations.

I attend “University X” and we have a fairly big, fairly competitive recruitment. I've never been on the recruitment committee, but I do know we use the RFM system—I guess about everyone has to anymore. Anyway, when the dust settled after recruitment, one of the best recruiting chapters (A) ended up a dozen under quota! Another fairly popular chapter (B) also was several under quota, but 2 houses (C and D) that have traditionally had more challenges in recruiting/retaining ended up bidding more than a dozen over quota!!

To jack things up even further, rumor has it that “A” can’t COB this year because they are already over chapter total!

How does this happen, and how often does it happen? It seems really unfair that a popular chapter is penalized by the system.

[tcsparky]

Per The Greenbook.......A and B are allowed to extend further bids /COB to Quota.

Carnation.......I am remembering correctly, yes?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

Per The Greenbook.......A and B are allowed to extend further bids /COB to Quota.

Carnation.......I am remembering correctly, yes?

Yes, every chapter is entitled to take up to quota, even if it puts them above total. For example, total is 100. XYZ goes into FR with 80, and takes 30, but quota is 40. They now have 110 members, and they are allowed to COB another 10.

[ladybug12]

I can promise that the rumor about "A" is not true. All chapters may COB to quota, even if they are over campus total.

And it is not unusual for historically top recruiting chapters to miss quota. If they are competing with 3 other very strong recruiting chapters for the same 100 highly desired PNMs and quota is 40, someone is going to come up short.

RFM allows such a chapter smaller numbers to invite to each round because historically they have made quota using similar numbers. Something as basic as being a little "off" with pref conversation or having another group having a really great recruitment can give you results similar to those you described.

[Titchou]

It may be that A and B, assuming they had a lock on certain PNMs, elected to under invite to pref and it backfired on them. That has happened as well. But yes, ANY chapter that does not make quota can COB to quota. It is one of the Unanimous Agreements to which ALL NPC groups and CPHs must adhere. See the MOI (Green Book) for this quote:

"Each NPC fraternity chapter has the right to COB to reach quota or its total allowable chapter size during the regular school year as defined by the school calendar."

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by ksu4me

OK, so I haven’t been on Greekchat since I was a freshman, but I have a question and didn’t know where to get the answer. I tried looking through RFM threads, but didn’t really find an answer.

I thought about changing my username, but given the details it’s not too hard to figure out my university. Trust me--everyone on my campus that cares about the situation is already well aware of it. It’s even all over the “other board”, if you know which one I mean. Still, I’d appreciate it if GC posters would just use the generic tags that I am going to use. I don’t want to aggravate those that already have been hurt by this, and it could happen to any of our organizations.

I attend “University X” and we have a fairly big, fairly competitive recruitment. I've never been on the recruitment committee, but I do know we use the RFM system—I guess about everyone has to anymore. Anyway, when the dust settled after recruitment, one of the best recruiting chapters (A) ended up a dozen under quota! Another fairly popular chapter (B) also was several under quota, but 2 houses (C and D) that have traditionally had more challenges in recruiting/retaining ended up bidding more than a dozen over quota!!

To jack things up even further, rumor has it that “A” can’t COB this year because they are already over chapter total!

How does this happen, and how often does it happen? It seems really unfair that a popular chapter is penalized by the system.

ksu4me and DeltaBetaBaby, ladybug12, and Titchou

I saw this spread of results numbers (mainly via irishpipes' list) and I was dumbfounded / curious, too. However, I can be fairly content with probably never knowing for sure what happened and why..

[gee_ess]

With all of the wackiness related to RFM, could it be possible that chapters A and B actually took quota but no quota additions which all went to chapters C and D?

[DubaiSis]

The other situation could be the RFM specialist set the numbers of the 2 top "producers" at continually tighter rates, and with each other as competitors on their girls' pref lists, that prime group of girls was split between 2 chapters. Or in other words, they couldn't pick up the other chapter's leftovers because there were none. The lower producing chapter would have a much longer flex list and would as a result have a much better chance at QAs.

I have been wondering if the chapters are being made to make too large of cuts through the process. Of course, if they made it a little looser, quotas could go up even further which is a scary thought at some schools.

But you'll probably never know what really happened, so I'd try to just get over it and move on.