Top 25 National Groups (The Daily Beast)

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Kappa Sigma was apparently left off of the fraternity list. Maybe because they left the NIC?

But there are many more fraternities than sororities. It's pretty shitty to rank them to begin with, but even more so to make a list of the top 25 out of 26. Also, the fraternity list included NPHC, but not the sorority list.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

But there are many more fraternities than sororities. It's pretty shitty to rank them to begin with, but even more so to make a list of the top 25 out of 26. Also, the fraternity list included NPHC, but not the sorority list.

Since Kappa Sigma was expanded, I can only assume the first list was taken from NIC groups only, of which some NPHC groups belong to, e.g., Alpha Phi Alpha and Kappa Alpha Psi (not sure about the rest).

I don't think it's shitty to rank at all. Ranking tells us where we are with respect to the competition and helps us to know what parts of the organization should be looked at for improvement, etc.

That's only, of course, if the rankings are based on facts which the organizations care about. I can't imagine an NIC convention where national officers and delegates are bragging about the number of brothers in Congress. For that matter, I can't imagine bragging about any association with anyone in Congress right now, but I digress.

These are clearly just-for-fun rankings, not meant to be taken seriously. I did enjoy the fact that Sigma Nu came in at #5, which is just about where we come in when ranking things like # of chapters and average chapter size.

I'd really like to see someone compile a ranking using meaningful criteria and can definitely see the use in such an exercise.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't think it's shitty to rank at all. Ranking tells us where we are with respect to the competition and helps us to know what parts of the organization should be looked at for improvement, etc.

There are many things in life that can be ranked, but I don't believe that Greek organizations should be. What's the point? Not everyone is meant to join every organization. It's not like sports, where everyone's goal is to win games. Different organizations have different goals and appeal to different types of people.

And with these types of rankings, I just think it creates, in some cases, unrealistic goals for young men and women, and can point them in the wrong direction.

I'd really like to see someone compile a ranking using meaningful criteria and can definitely see the use in such an exercise

Really? What good do you see this doing?

Let's face it - for the most part, the groups that "win" have the most members and donate the most to charity. How else do you compare them?

"Oh, but you don't understand.. our symbol is the crown, and kings wear crowns! Lowly fisherman use anchors," or, "Well, you see, in a fight, I think a panda bear would CLEARLY take down a giraffe or a turtle. And don't even get me started on those damn squirrels. What do they even DO anyway?"

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

There are many things in life that can be ranked, but I don't believe that Greek organizations should be. What's the point? Not everyone is meant to join every organization. It's not like sports, where everyone's goal is to win games. Different organizations have different goals and appeal to different types of people.

And with these types of rankings, I just think it creates, in some cases, unrealistic goals for young men and women, and can point them in the wrong direction.



Really? What good do you see this doing?

Let's face it - for the most part, the groups that "win" have the most members and donate the most to charity. How else do you compare them?

"Oh, but you don't understand.. our symbol is the crown, and kings wear crowns! Lowly fisherman use anchors," or, "Well, you see, in a fight, I think a panda bear would CLEARLY take down a giraffe or a turtle. And don't even get me started on those damn squirrels. What do they even DO anyway?"

LOL...if you can get it to stop eating bamboo for two seconds!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Really? What good do you see this doing?

Let me be a little more clear. Overall rankings are probably a waste of time. However, a ranking as to amount invested in real estate would possibly be very helpful. If my group had a very low ranking and Lambda Chi Alpha had a very high ranking and I wanted to improve, I'd know immediately who I'm going to look at for ideas.

But maybe that's not your cup of tea and you're more interested in community service. If your group was #25 in community service hours and that was your main goal, wouldn't you like to know what #1 is doing differently?

Yes, a lot of groups are different, but within the 70 or so members of the NIC, we're probably a lot more similar overall than different. Most of us want the numbers, want to give money to charity, want to set up effective organizations. Knowing who those effective organizations are so that they may be observed is going to help everyone.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Let me be a little more clear. Overall rankings are probably a waste of time. However, a ranking as to amount invested in real estate would possibly be very helpful. If my group had a very low ranking and Lambda Chi Alpha had a very high ranking and I wanted to improve, I'd know immediately who I'm going to look at for ideas.

But maybe that's not your cup of tea and you're more interested in community service. If your group was #25 in community service hours and that was your main goal, wouldn't you like to know what #1 is doing differently?

Yes, a lot of groups are different, but within the 70 or so members of the NIC, we're probably a lot more similar overall than different. Most of us want the numbers, want to give money to charity, want to set up effective organizations. Knowing who those effective organizations are so that they may be observed is going to help everyone.

Ok, this makes more sense.

What I'd actually like to see is the (relevant) data broken down even further. In addition to reporting that ABC raised $500,000 in philanthropic endeavors last year, provide information like:
Which charitable organiztions they're involved with
Average dollar amount raised per member/chapter
Average number of volunteer hours per member/chapter
Etc.

Because, for example, let's say (on a much smaller scale) there are 2 organizations that both raise $1,000, and one has 100 members, and the other has 10 members. If philanthropy was important to you, which would you be more drawn to?

And while this would definitely be helpful, it's still tricky when it comes to the NPC especially, with the way they run recruitment. And it still isn't perfect overall, as every campus/chapter of every organization is different.

Either way, get rid of the numbered rankings.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

And while this would definitely be helpful, it's still tricky when it comes to the NPC especially, with the way they run recruitment.

Why do you say this? It's been my experience that NPC groups are very open with one another, even in areas where they are "competing".

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Why do you say this? It's been my experience that NPC groups are very open with one another, even in areas where they are "competing".

I don't mean that the information wouldn't be beneficial, or that it shouldn't be available to the public.

Generally speaking though, with fraternity and non-NPC sorority recruitment, potential members "pick and choose" which groups' recruitment events to attend. In the NPC, potential members attend every chapters' recruitment events, are encouraged to "keep an open mind" and stick with it even when they don't get their first choice. There are quotas, and total, and silence rules, and other things that factor in, and not everyone can get their first choice.

That's not to say that everyone gets their first choice outside of the NPC, but hopefully you understand where I'm coming from

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Also, the fraternity list included NPHC, but not the sorority list.

That's because, with the exception of Omega Psi Phi, the NPHC fraternities are also members of the NIC.

That sidesteps the underlying assumption of the lists -- that "fraternity" means NIC and "sorority" means NPC.