Alabama Rush and First Cuts: Predetermined?

[magnoliacurious]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Something I’ve noticed for years, and again on this year’s bid list, is how few girls from Mississippi appear on the lists. I know a number of Greek girls from here (Alabama) who attend Ole Miss and Mississippi State (and we are also a less populous state), but have wondered why UofA doesn’t seem to attract more students from Mississippi.

Anyone from Mississippi who has some insight?

Yeah, you're right that there aren't a whole lot of Mississippi students on the list compared to other states, but from memory of other years' bid lists, I did notice what seemed to be a definite increase in Magnolia State girls going greek at the University of Alabama this year. Mary Poppins' theory of why there aren't too many makes as much sense as anything to me.

[ladybug12]

I could probably count on my fingers (and maybe toes) the number of women from Mississippi who went through recruitment at Bama this year...and the past few years.

It probably has to do with out of state tuition costs and excellent scholarships offered to in-state women to try to keep them in Mississippi schools. I personally know of several women who turned down scholarships to out of state schools due to better money offered from Mississippi universities.

[amIblue?]

I've often thought that the increase in OOS students at Alabama is directly correlated with the return to a successful football program with Saban and the increased national media exposure. There's no better advertising. Schools typically see an increase in applicants following a national championship, and y'all have had two in the last three years.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I've often thought that the increase in OOS students at Alabama is directly correlated with the return to a successful football program with Saban and the increased national media exposure. There's no better advertising. Schools typically see an increase in applicants following a national championship, and y'all have had two in the last three years.

That helps, but the fact that Georgia, Florida and other states offer their students free tuition is one of the big reasons.
It's great that they get free tuition (paid for by lotteries), but that means the in-state schools now have their choice of students...thus they can be pickier about the GPAs they'll accept.
Which means they fill up their freshman classes with higher-achieving students...leaving those with lower grades (and sometimes only slightly lower) out in the cold, and forced to attend an out-of-state school unless they want to go the private school route.
At the same time, UA has been offering free full rides to National Merit finalists, and other generous scholarships to high-achieving students. The newer dorms appeal to freshmen...nice recreation centers...honors college...and so on.
Add to all that - a sluggish economy means fewer jobs, so more people staying in school longer.
In the long run, I doubt the growth will continue. Things will slow down eventually.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

That helps, but the fact that Georgia, Florida and other states offer their students free tuition is one of the big reasons.
It's great that they get free tuition (paid for by lotteries), but that means the in-state schools now have their choice of students...thus they can be pickier about the GPAs they'll accept.
Which means they fill up their freshman classes with higher-achieving students...leaving those with lower grades (and sometimes only slightly lower) out in the cold, and forced to attend an out-of-state school unless they want to go the private school route.
At the same time, UA has been offering free full rides to National Merit finalists, and other generous scholarships to high-achieving students. The newer dorms appeal to freshmen...nice recreation centers...honors college...and so on.
Add to all that - a sluggish economy means fewer jobs, so more people staying in school longer.
In the long run, I doubt the growth will continue. Things will slow down eventually.

From my time as an SAT prep tutor in Atlanta, I can testify about the impact the hope scholarship has had on how difficult it has become to get into UGA. Many of my students listed Auburn and Alabama as their target schools. Similar cultures to UGA, etc.

[magnoliacurious]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

That helps, but the fact that Georgia, Florida and other states offer their students free tuition is one of the big reasons.
It's great that they get free tuition (paid for by lotteries), but that means the in-state schools now have their choice of students...thus they can be pickier about the GPAs they'll accept.
Which means they fill up their freshman classes with higher-achieving students...leaving those with lower grades (and sometimes only slightly lower) out in the cold, and forced to attend an out-of-state school unless they want to go the private school route.
At the same time, UA has been offering free full rides to National Merit finalists, and other generous scholarships to high-achieving students. The newer dorms appeal to freshmen...nice recreation centers...honors college...and so on.
Add to all that - a sluggish economy means fewer jobs, so more people staying in school longer.
In the long run, I doubt the growth will continue. Things will slow down eventually.

Yep, and in Texas they've had the ten, now I think eight percent law about everybody in that top percent of their high school graduating class being guaranteed admission to the Texas state-supported school of their choice. That's a similar factor as well. Do you remember that column in the Crimson White last year from a Texas girl at the Capstone entitled "Sweet Home Ala-Texas?!"

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

That helps, but the fact that Georgia, Florida and other states offer their students free tuition is one of the big reasons.
It's great that they get free tuition (paid for by lotteries), but that means the in-state schools now have their choice of students...thus they can be pickier about the GPAs they'll accept.
Which means they fill up their freshman classes with higher-achieving students...leaving those with lower grades (and sometimes only slightly lower) out in the cold, and forced to attend an out-of-state school unless they want to go the private school route...

There is a problem at Bama in regards to the Greek system with these various states offering free tuition. As stated many students who couldn't get accepted to their home state school due to GPA will attend Bama. Then they work really hard, make excellent grades, and transfer back to a home state school for free or cheaper tuition than UA.

Is it huge numbers? No. However it affects sorority membership. It can be hard on a chapter if 5+ key members transfer in a year. (I've seen it happen.) This is also one of the reasons I have heard why many chapters is places like GA do not allow transfer members to affiliate. There are simply too many of them.

[magnoliacurious]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I've often thought that the increase in OOS students at Alabama is directly correlated with the return to a successful football program with Saban and the increased national media exposure. There's no better advertising. Schools typically see an increase in applicants following a national championship, and y'all have had two in the last three years.

Well that certainly doesn't hurt, but I remember that Bama' was getting a big increase in out-of-state students during the mediocre Mike Shula years too (2003-06). In fact, this year's increase in sorority recruitment signups was just two more than the previous (I assume) record numerical increase in 2006 - I've read the Bama' Greek Affairs Sorority Recruitment statistics online from time-to-time. I think the main thing was that Dr. Robert Witt really did a good job as President of the University recruiting, including out-of-state students. As I said earlier, he really was the Alabama greek system's best friend!!

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by magnoliacurious

Well that certainly doesn't hurt, but I remember that Bama' was getting a big increase in out-of-state students during the mediocre Mike Shula years too (2003-06). In fact, this year's increase in sorority recruitment signups was just two more than the previous (I assume) record numerical increase in 2006 - I've read the Bama' Greek Affairs Sorority Recruitment statistics online from time-to-time. I think the main thing was that Dr. Robert Witt really did a good job as President of the University recruiting, including out-of-state students. As I said earlier, he really was the Alabama greek system's best friend!!

That's interesting -- I think the OOS trend has been occuring for some time -- I didn't check any stats but noticed on a 2007 thread that someone posted:

Actually, a higher percentage of out of state recieved bids than in-state women. It's less than 1/2 a percent difference but still. [...]

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...&postcount=168

[MaryPoppins]

Mississippi's population is just under three million and it has the lowest per capita income of all 50 states. According to the 2010 Census, there were about 76,000 teenagers in Mississippi from ages 15-18. Almost half of those were boys, right about 1/3 of those would be 18 in 2012, but only about 50% (at most) of the female cohort graduated from high school. Based on my lawyerly math skills this would mean roughly about 6,333 college aged women who might be eligible for recruitment. With the low income rate and the need for low skilled work not all of them will go to an undergraduate program. Also not all of them will go to a school with a Greek system or have the money to devote to Greek life. Mississippi has one of the highest military enlistment rates in the nation. Now, only 1 to 4 high schools in Mississippi make the national "best of" lists depending on which list you pick. This means the students eligible for recruitment in out-of-state schools maybe an even smaller pool than one might expect.

[AGDee]

It's also crazy cheap for OOS students compared to other schools. Makes me wonder just why the University of Michigan costs so much.

[formerlurker]

The same thing has happened here in Tennessee since we got the Hope scholarship. so many of the top students are staying in state and going to UT that a lot of kids with pretty good grades and test scores can't get in. Many of them go to our regional schools and those have grown like crazy, but the ones who want the SEC experience go elsewhere. At first, Auburn and Ole Miss were the top choices but Alabama has overtaken them recently, probably partly as a result of football's success and partly because they have substantially grown their university and marketed themselves well.
If Alabama were to get a lottery and offer free tuition for in state kids it would be interesting to see if the same situation would develop there, with 2 big SEC school in a state of that size.

[Beaumom]

FYI From another thread:

Here is comparative data for last year -- looks very similar when you take into account that a greater number of students -- both instate and out of state -- went through rush this year. (Sorry for the less than beautiful formatting -- left column is 2011, right column is 2012)

AL 535 587
AK 0 1
AR 1 4
AZ 1 2
CA 30 56
CO 7 14
CT 10 19
DC 1 0
DE 2 2
FL 76 125
GA 134 200
HI 0 1
ID 1 4
IL 25 45
IN 5 14
KS 3 5
KY 21 32
LA 33 14
MA 7 16
MD 31 28
MI 3 4
MN 3 0
MO 14 20
MS 16 12
NC 25 38
ND 0 1
NE 2 1
NH 1 1
NJ 8 25
NV 0 1
NM 1 2
NY 13 18
OH 20 27
OK 1 4
OR 2 1
PA 12 28
SC 15 21
TN 86 87
TX 113 157
UT 0 1
VA 35 42
VT 1 0
WA 1 2
WI 2 3
WV 2 2
OTH 3 3

[magnoliacurious]

Originally Posted by Beaumom

FYI From another thread:

Here is comparative data for last year -- looks very similar when you take into account that a greater number of students -- both instate and out of state -- went through rush this year. (Sorry for the less than beautiful formatting -- left column is 2011, right column is 2012)

AL 535 587
AK 0 1
AR 1 4
AZ 1 2
CA 30 56
CO 7 14
CT 10 19
DC 1 0
DE 2 2
FL 76 125
GA 134 200
HI 0 1
ID 1 4
IL 25 45
IN 5 14
KS 3 5
KY 21 32
LA 33 14
MA 7 16
MD 31 28
MI 3 4
MN 3 0
MO 14 20
MS 16 12
NC 25 38
ND 0 1
NE 2 1
NH 1 1
NJ 8 25
NV 0 1
NM 1 2
NY 13 18
OH 20 27
OK 1 4
OR 2 1
PA 12 28
SC 15 21
TN 86 87
TX 113 157
UT 0 1
VA 35 42
VT 1 0
WA 1 2
WI 2 3
WV 2 2
OTH 3 3

Thanks so much, shout-out to you too, Beaumom!!

[DubaiSis]

At least it's enough that it should put to rest that whole "you won't get a bid if you're from out of state" thing.