Gunman Opens Fire During "The Dark Knight Rises"

[tcsparky]

And it's a huge leap to "the bad guy might be wearing body armor therefore we all should be defenseless against whatever happens." As I said, if one person had been able to stop this guy.....Body armor has weaknesses. It doesn't protect everything. I am willing to take my chances on myself or others in the audience trying to make the guy stop rather than curl up in a ball and beg not to be shot next.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

And it's a huge leap to "the bad guy might be wearing body armor therefore we all should be defenseless against whatever happens." As I said, if one person had been able to stop this guy.....Body armor has weaknesses. It doesn't protect everything. I am willing to take my chances on myself or others in the audience trying to make the guy stop rather than curl up in a ball and beg not to be shot next.

Methinks you know very little about the accuracy of handguns.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Methinks you know very little about the accuracy of handguns.

Even if you hit someone on the body armor, it's going to sting enough to slow them down.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Even if you hit someone on the body armor, it's going to sting enough to slow them down.

Again, that's a pretty big IF. You assume that they can grasp what is happening, remain calm enough to pull out the weapon and load the magazine, and get a clear shot off at a distance that allows them to be accurate in the middle of this type of chaos.

Don't get me wrong, I think you can reasonably make a case for concealed carry, but this incident is NOT it.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Again, that's a pretty big IF. You assume that they can grasp what is happening, remain calm enough to pull out the weapon and load the magazine, and get a clear shot off at a distance that allows them to be accurate in the middle of this type of chaos.

Don't get me wrong, I think you can reasonably make a case for concealed carry, but this incident is NOT it.

I agree. Considering this took place in a tear gas-filled, dark, loud movie theater, I think adding more guns to the mix would just make the environment even more dangerous.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I agree. Considering this took place in a tear gas-filled, dark, loud movie theater, I think adding more guns to the mix would just make the environment even more dangerous.

I cannot disagree enough with your statement. The disturbing thing about active shooter situations (which this was) is that the subject typically only stops shooting because they run out of ammunition, everyone's dead and there's no one left to shoot, or they are stopped by someone (typically law enforcement). The reason why so many people got shot is because the man had no resistance what so ever. Hell, even if a 90 year old grandma started popping rounds at this guy's general direction it would have forced him to duck and get cover, possibly allowing more people to escape. I'm not sure of the exact details of the layout of this theater but since most people either run away or hit the floor from gunmen I don't see a whole lot of danger of people getting in the crossfire. Also, whoever did have a gun would have the element of surprise on this guy since I'm pretty sure he'd have a hard time finding the movie goer with the gun in a dark, smoke filled theater.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Even if you hit someone on the body armor, it's going to sting enough to slow them down.

At the very least it will. Ive heard of people getting knocked on their ass with the wind knocked out of them while taking a direct shot to their armor. Of course, it all depends on the caliber of the firearm and type of body armor (soft vs hard)

[tcsparky]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Methinks you know very little about the accuracy of handguns.

The you think wrong. I have a great deal of experience with them. From my personal weapons to military training, I know that a short firing range (movie theatres are not that large), high levels of practice and good quality weapons can give you very good accuracy with handguns.

I also know that if one, two or more people in that audience had personal protection with them, then yes, it would have distracted him, slowed him down, possibly wounded or killed him and the outcome might have been different-and conceivably it might have been the same. But I do know that I would rather be defending myself than kneeling and begging. I will not be an unarmed, willing victim.

And body armor is not a magic protection bubble, which is why friends of mine who are police officers are still wary. It has a lot of vulnerabilities.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

But I do know that I would rather be defending myself than kneeling and begging. I will not be an unarmed, willing victim.

[tcsparky]

Again, shows that you do not know me. For one thing, I'm a chick. For another, I am not and never have been an "Internet tough guy." But I will and have defended myself and my home with weapons. I will not be an unarmed, willing victim. Should you choose to do so, then that is certainly your right. Attempting to mock those of us who believe in personal defense shows us a lot about YOU. People who grew up in hunting communities, have been in the military or who have received proper training often choose defense over retreat.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

People who grew up in hunting communities, have been in the military or who have received proper training often choose defense over retreat.

As sometimes do people who haven't grown up in hunting communities, who haven't been in the military, who haven't received proper training and who wouldn't really have a clue what to do in a dark, crowded, tear gas-filled theater, no matter how much they think they can save the day. The risk of those people creating problems bothers me as much if not more than the risk of the isolated crazy gunman.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

And it's a huge leap to "the bad guy might be wearing body armor therefore we all should be defenseless against whatever happens." As I said, if one person had been able to stop this guy.....Body armor has weaknesses. It doesn't protect everything. I am willing to take my chances on myself or others in the audience trying to make the guy stop rather than curl up in a ball and beg not to be shot next.

The problem for me comes with all the other people in the audience with concealed weapons who don't know what they're doing. Not a good thing in a panicked crowd as far as I'm concerned.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The problem for me comes with all the other people in the audience with concealed weapons who don't know what they're doing. Not a good thing in a panicked crowd as far as I'm concerned.

They've all had the classes, so one would hope that if someone is going to carry a gun, they know how to use it correctly.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

They've all had the classes, so one would hope that if someone is going to carry a gun, they know how to use it correctly.

Sorry, but that did make me laugh. One would indeed hope, but I fear that all too often, one would be disappointed, especially when we're talking about a dark, crowded theater rather than a firing range. Dealing with that kind of situation takes a lot more training and skil than someone is likely to get in a regular firearm safety class.

[BAckbOwlsgIrl]

It SUCKS. IT SUCKS REALLY BAD

Sorry to be dramatic, Gang. Just telling it like it is.

This community and Colorado have been through alot.
We survived the fires, feeling completely helpless while everything around us was burning. We had smoke from both the High Park and Waldo Canyon fires. It hurt like hell to have smoke in blowing between the mountains from countless fires in the state. We came together. Greeks came out in force to help the victims. They were AMAZING and we can be so proud of them.

And now this.

It SUCKS. IT SUCKS REALLY BAD

We were so looking forward to our Olympians in London. Missy Franklin is a favorite. We are so proud of her and all of those that train in Colorado including the Olympic training facility.

The city and everyone is hurting right now. We will get through this.
We got through Columbine and Platte Canyon as well as everything else.

Kathy Lee Bates said it best;
"O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!"

I didn't think that we could take anymore but we will.
And Greeks will be there. Trust me, they will be. We as a GLO community and their respective organizations can be proud of them.

KEEP THE KARMA COMING...

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

People who grew up in hunting communities, have been in the military or who have received proper training often choose defense over retreat.

Practice makes perfect... Except when your life is on the line.

There are people who go through the most advanced military training in the world, and then panic and retreat when it comes to the real deal.

And I don't think I even have to explain to you the difference between shooting a person who's shooting back at you in a crowded, smoke-filled theater, and attempting to kill a defenseless deer in the woods.

Originally Posted by Kevin

They've all had the classes, so one would hope that if someone is going to carry a gun, they know how to use it correctly.

My job is to train people how to use one particular computer program. My company implemented it 2+ years ago. There are people who still don't know how to perform basic functions like cutting and pasting, even after I've shown them how to do it 10 different times. And they use this program all day, every day.

The fact that someone attended a class means nothing.