Law Degree Losing Its Luster?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The headline is drama and hype. The story is a reflection of the economy. It's also a bit of hype, in that historically not all lawyers have made "lots" of money. Comparatively I'm not even sure you can say "most" have, depending on how one defines "lots" of money. Most lawyers make a comfortable living. There's a difference. I wonder how many grads come out of law schools expecting the high-paying jobs that most of them will not get.

Then there's the question of whether part of the problem is that there are too many lawyers. Are law schools turning out more lawyers than the population and economy can reasonably support?

Full disclosure: I am not an attorney, nor a law student, but this is a huge topic of discussion here, as a few law school alumni have banded together to sue some law schools for misrepresentation. I'm also a school snob.

I read somewhere, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that a lot of third-tier law schools are popping up because of the "promise" that law school offers and that it's a fairly lucrative endeavor for a university to add a law school. They know that students will pay (i.e., take on ridiculous loans) for a chance to "make the big bucks," and aren't savvy enough to know that all law schools are not created equally.

In some ways, it's similar to getting an MBA from the University of Phoenix. It may BE the same degree in name, but it won't get the mileage that an MBA from Harvard, Michigan, or Columbia might provide you; it will still get you high debt though. Most of the lawyers in my family and circle of friends ARE in those big law firms in big cities--but they also went to first-tier law schools (and undergrads). The ones who aren't did NOT want that big firm lifestyle and chose other paths.

I think it comes down to being realistic about your options. If you want to do work in a specific region, and you're fine with a comfortable salary, then go to a lower-tier school. You just have to be aware of the fact that it may be as far as you're going to go. That seems to be the issue--that a lot of people went to Podunk U's School of Law thinking that they were going to be tapped to join the white shoe firms in the big cities or to be asked to clerk at the Supreme Court.* They weren't, and they feel as if they got a bum deal.


*While I do not enjoy Clarence Thomas, I agree with him that the Supreme Court is getting too myopic in its views, as all sitting Justices attended Harvard or Yale. He has committed to picking clerks from all different law schools. I doubt many of his fellow Justices have done the same, but it's a start.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Full disclosure: I am not an attorney, nor a law student, but this is a huge topic of discussion here, as a few law school alumni have banded together to sue some law schools for misrepresentation. I'm also a school snob.

I read somewhere, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that a lot of third-tier law schools are popping up because of the "promise" that law school offers and that it's a fairly lucrative endeavor for a university to add a law school. They know that students will pay (i.e., take on ridiculous loans) for a chance to "make the big bucks," and aren't savvy enough to know that all law schools are not created equally.

In some ways, it's similar to getting an MBA from the University of Phoenix. It may BE the same degree in name, but it won't get the mileage that an MBA from Harvard, Michigan, or Columbia might provide you; it will still get you high debt though. Most of the lawyers in my family and circle of friends ARE in those big law firms in big cities--but they also went to first-tier law schools (and undergrads). The ones who aren't did NOT want that big firm lifestyle and chose other paths.

I think it comes down to being realistic about your options. If you want to do work in a specific region, and you're fine with a comfortable salary, then go to a lower-tier school. You just have to be aware of the fact that it may be as far as you're going to go. That seems to be the issue--that a lot of people went to Podunk U's School of Law thinking that they were going to be tapped to join the white shoe firms in the big cities or to be asked to clerk at the Supreme Court.* They weren't, and they feel as if they got a bum deal.


*While I do not enjoy Clarence Thomas, I agree with him that the Supreme Court is getting too myopic in its views, as all sitting Justices attended Harvard or Yale. He has committed to picking clerks from all different law schools. I doubt many of his fellow Justices have done the same, but it's a start.

Law degrees get a ton of attention, but I think this is happening to a LOT of degrees. Now that most entry-level salaried jobs require a bachelors (and have for a while), everyone has a bachelors. So everyone goes for masters degrees, like that is the thing that will make them stand out. In return, lots of schools are adding masters programs, and making them non-research degrees in fields that have typically required a thesis. Thus, the masters has just become an extended bachelors.

On the whole, I think there is a glut of degree holders. Maybe law gets all of the attention because of its former prestige, and the expense of a law degree compared to other programs.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Law degrees get a ton of attention, but I think this is happening to a LOT of degrees. Now that most entry-level salaried jobs require a bachelors (and have for a while), everyone has a bachelors. So everyone goes for masters degrees, like that is the thing that will make them stand out. In return, lots of schools are adding masters programs, and making them non-research degrees in fields that have typically required a thesis. Thus, the masters has just become an extended bachelors.

On the whole, I think there is a glut of degree holders. Maybe law gets all of the attention because of its former prestige, and the expense of a law degree compared to other programs.

It's definitely happening across the board. One of the reasons universities LOVE Master's programs is because, for the most part, they're not expected to provide any, or much, funding. A non-research Master's program also requires little full-time faculty and resources--but the school is getting cold hard cash.

My graduate program was a bit of a cash cow program like that. It was once fantastic but it had fallen by the time I got there and was riding off its previous glory. Nevertheless, a lot of kids were impressed by the University's name and were perfectly content to take out the max in loans and not work or look for internships. Those are the same people who had a hard time finding a job afterwards; some never took off in the field and are doing other things. Those of us who took advantage of what the University, and the city, had to offer and pounded the pavement for jobs are doing very well.