Law Degree Losing Its Luster?

[KSUViolet06]

Wait, there is a such thing as for-profit law school?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Wait, there is a such thing as for-profit law school?

Of course.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Of course.

There aren't too many. Kaplan operates one. I'm pretty sure they send out promotional literature to everyone who does poorly on the LSAT. Some states will even license you if you graduate from a non-ABA approved school.

My remarks about my school weren't that it is for-profit per se, but it is being run as a cash cow to subsidize other aspects of the university.

[aggieAXO]

The same issue is happening in veterinary medicine. We are pumping out too many vets. More schools are opening up and many schools have increased their class sizes. There are many undergrad students that don't get into a state side school so now they are going overseas to vet school where their debt can easily reach 250,000 to 300,000 (for example Ross university which is a for profit school). Try paying 250,000$ off with a 60,000$ a year salary-and this is if you can get a job. I have tried to educate some of these pre vet students on the student doctor network message board-but they don't want to hear it. Many think they won't have any problems getting a job or that it is all rainbows and unicorns once they graduate. They are in for a big surprise. I was talking to a 4th year vet student this May and she said 60% of the 2012class did not have a job yet. My class (1997) had at least 3 job offers each by early spring. We could pick and chose where we wanted to go.

I have trried to warn them and have gotten nothing but rude responses. At this point I don't give a rat's ass if they drown in debt.

Does anyone have any opinions on the income based repayment that the government is now offering? Many of these students are saying they are just going to depend onthis when they graduate but I have a feeling this program will not last.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

The same issue is happening in veterinary medicine. We are pumping out too many vets. More schools are opening up and many schools have increased their class sizes. There are many undergrad students that don't get into a state side school so now they are going overseas to vet school where their debt can easily reach 250,000 to 300,000 (for example Ross university which is a for profit school).

I know next to nothing about med or vet school, but I see ads for overseas med school all the time when I'm on campus.

I had been wondering how reputable those programs are. Like, can you sit for the appropriate licensure exams after going there? And even if you do get a license, is anyone going to be interested in hiring you/having you as a resident when they find out where you went to school?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I know next to nothing about med or vet school, but I see ads for overseas med school all the time when I'm on campus.

I had been wondering how reputable those programs are. Like, can you sit for the appropriate licensure exams after going there? And even if you do get a license, is anyone going to be interested in hiring you/having you as a resident when they find out where you went to school?

Yes, you can go to med school in the Carribean and do a residency here. The AMA keeps a pretty strict cap on the number of seats in medical schools, to the point where some would argue there are not enough doctors being trained.

I have no idea why the ABA doesn't do the same.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I have no idea why the ABA doesn't do the same.

Money.

--that and the fact that for-profits which aren't licensed by the ABA are popping up and some states are allowing their graduates to take the Bar. This could render the ABA impotent.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I know next to nothing about med or vet school, but I see ads for overseas med school all the time when I'm on campus.

I had been wondering how reputable those programs are. Like, can you sit for the appropriate licensure exams after going there? And even if you do get a license, is anyone going to be interested in hiring you/having you as a resident when they find out where you went to school?

Caribbean medical schools do serve an important niche. Here in NYC, there's an Urban Doctors Program that will provide scholarships to students to study at Caribbean medical schools with the understanding that they'll work at one of the underserved public hospitals in the city for a number of years after their residencies (which they'll also do here). Some people pick those schools specifically because they want to do public health and don't necessarily want/need to take on the debt of a major medical school. The vast majority of the people in Caribbean medical schools WANT to be in places like Rwanda or the South Bronx.

It's kind of like Kevin's situation--he knew he'd have a job right out, so he needed the JD--not the name on the JD. The problem lies in the people who think they'll have all of same opportunities as those who went to a more prestigious school.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

It's kind of like Kevin's situation--he knew he'd have a job right out, so he needed the JD--not the name on the JD. The problem lies in the people who think they'll have all of same opportunities as those who went to a more prestigious school.

I'm not sure there are any folks attending T3/T4 schools and expecting to get jobs at Top 100 firms. They'd have to be pretty delusional.

I was content to stay in OKC. Here, the top firms recruit from the three state schools equally. They care more about class rank and internships and clerk ships than they do your school tier.

Students should treat their education as an investment. It's not a ticket to greatness, it's just a ticket to ride.

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I know next to nothing about med or vet school, but I see ads for overseas med school all the time when I'm on campus.

I had been wondering how reputable those programs are. Like, can you sit for the appropriate licensure exams after going there? And even if you do get a license, is anyone going to be interested in hiring you/having you as a resident when they find out where you went to school?

There are several AVMA accredited schools overseas so these grads don't have to go through hoops to get licensed. I don't know how marketable they are though. I figure if 60% of Texas A&M grads are having trouble finding work then overseas students will likley have a tougher time. We have a Ross grad working at my clinic and she is one smart cookie but for some reason A&M would not accept her. I got her the job because I knew her and talked my boss into hiring her. There is another Ross student that will graduate next year that use to be a tech for us-my boss will likely hire her as well. I think at this point it is a "who you know" kind of job market.

I read many of the veterinary threads on Student/Dr network and many of the pre-vets are disillusioned IMO. They think it is all about treating the animal no mattter what. Many forget there is an owner attached to the pet and that it is a business. If the owner can't or is unwilling to pay then you have to make a decision-are you going to treat for free, send them home and let the pet suffer or euthanize? The economy sucks and unfortunately animals are a luxury to many people. Just this week I had a lady complaining about an extra 5$ on her bill and how she needed to get a manicure
Meanwhile, I have a parvo pup at the clinic right now that was going to be euthanized on Wednesday-I looked into his eyes and just couldn't do it-I have about 1500$ invested in him at this point. I hope he makes it.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

If the owner can't or is unwilling to pay then you have to make a decision-are you going to treat for free, send them home and let the pet suffer or euthanize? The economy sucks and unfortunately animals are a luxury to many people. Just this week I had a lady complaining about an extra 5$ on her bill and how she needed to get a manicure
.

Yep. What you have in bold is what I struggled with. I'm getting better, though. It still aggravates me when they complain about the costs to run tests to see what's wrong. "Oh, that's too high. Why can't you tell me what's wrong?" The words of one my clients who hadn't taken his dog to see a vet in years. The dog was limping, 7 years old, and his body was covered with what looked like tumors, to me. The dog was coughing, and he thought it was kennel cough. Not seeing a vet in 7 years? That "kennel cough" could be anything. Probably heartworms. Long story short, I didn't run the tests, because he didn't want to pay for it. I see this a lot, and I still struggle with it, at times.

eta: Keep us posted (in the random thread) on that patient.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

Does anyone have any opinions on the income based repayment that the government is now offering?

IBR is a good thing considering the limited alternatives that most people have.

[KSUViolet06]

^^^Oh no, I get that. I was just unaware that Kaplan has a law program. I shouldn't be surprised.

I'm hi-jacking, but I don't get the allure of doing a degree with Kaplan. So many disclaimers.

For example, I'm in an M. Ed. program. Kaplan offers the SAME program with BIG GIANT ASTERISKS saying "Kaplan can't guarantee that you'll be eligible for a teaching license after completing this, as it doesn't meet the licensure requirements of any state except Iowa."

Well, what is the point of it then? Why would someone spend a bajillion dollars to not even be eligible for a license?

Are you even eligible to take the bar after you get a Kaplan degree?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

^^^Oh no, I get that. I was just unaware that Kaplan has a law program. I shouldn't be surprised.

I'm hi-jacking, but I don't get the allure of doing a degree with Kaplan. So many disclaimers.

For example, I'm in an M. Ed. program. Kaplan offers the SAME program with BIG GIANT ASTERISKS saying "Kaplan can't guarantee that you'll be eligible for a teaching license after completing this, as it doesn't meet the licensure requirements of any state except Iowa."

Well, what is the point of it then? Why would someone spend a bajillion dollars to not even be eligible for a license?

Are you even eligible to take the bar after you get a Kaplan degree?

Remember that cool thread about online degrees that turned into a thread about for-profit schools? Deja vu.

Interesting 2007 article that lists a few for-profit "schools of law":
http://stayviolation.typepad.com/chu...or-profit.html

(I do not necessarily agree with him but I am amused by his word usage errors that any amount of proofreading could have caught.)

Warning the world about all for-profit schools, one thread at a time. This is a list of the majority of for-profit schools and does not include every for-profit "school of law":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_and_colleges

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Are you even eligible to take the bar after you get a Kaplan degree?

It would totally depend on the state. Not in most states. In Illinois and most other states, you have to have a JD from an ABA accredited school to take the bar.

In California, you don't need a JD at all. Kaplan is registered with the California bar and its students can go through the unaccredited process for taking the bar. They take the First Year Exam ("Baby Bar") at the end of their 1L year and then sit for the regular bar at the end of their 3L year.