Obama backs gay marriage

[DubaiSis]

I worked for the Kerry presidential campaign years ago, and people literally put fliers on car windows while people were in church that said John Kerry wants to kill your babies. Yes you have to be pretty dumb to believe that, but if you believe it because nobody would have said that if it weren't true, then it really would be your obligation to protect the world from this horrible man. The same things happen over and over again, with abortion, gay rights, women's rights (forced unisex bathrooms anyone?). It's crazy what people will believe.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I'm still waiting on the outcry against divorces and second+ marriages.

Sanctity of the institution and whatnot.

This is probably, in part, why I'm so against judgement on this topic. I'm twice divorced and, given my experiences, have a hard time supporting marriage at all because I'm not sure I see any real advantages to it. I'm defensive about my failed marriages and I admit that.

This friend's husband has chimed in, in response to my post and I have replied. I am treading very carefully because I know I'm not going to change this person's mind about anything.

Him: in THIS country, the law gives reasonable expectation of tolerance. However, if our rights we love so dear truly come from God and not the government, there there is a real problem when the country continues to take the "worldly" approach to keep going down the slippery slope of immorality. There will come a time when this country will have progressed so far away from God's law (and freedom) that our nation will no longer exist. No society has ever lasted very long after they lost sight of God's moral compass. Our nation, founded on Godly principals of freedom, has been lucky to last this long. History proves this.

With that said, my stance is to love all as God tells us to. Marriage, through church or law is sacred. People live outside the law all the time. This includes man's law (which naturally comes from God - and man defiles it). I do not believe marriage or legal unions between man/man or woman/woman is right or justified. This includes legal status for things such as insurance benefits, etc. If 2 men live together in that relationship, and one wants the other to be the beneficiary, I guess that's something we can accept. BUT, I do not believe they should be allowed to "marry" or union together.

My response: The longest lasting civilization ever was Ancient Egypt and they were pagans, so I'm not convinced that history proves that no society has lasted very long without God's moral compass. If our country's laws are going to be based on the Bible, then we need to add a whole lot of them because there are a lot of people wearing cotton/polyester blends, cutting their hair, and eating pork and many other things that the Bible calls an abomination. God gave man free will and if you interpret the Bible literally, the very first people used their free will and ignored God's rules. Each and every one of us makes choices every day which of His laws we're going to follow and that's between us and Him on a very personal level. It isn't anybody else's business. Personally, I work hard to live by two of His laws: Judge not and Love thy neighbor. It is up to Him to decide what is right and wrong, not me, not our government and I'm only going to worry about the relationship that He and I have, not anybody else. It is His job to worry about everybody else.


This is a guy who doesn't believe in dinosaurs and fights hard for gun rights and I know my arguments won't go anywhere. I don't know why I bother...

[knight_shadow]

Great response, Dee.

I, too, have been in a few "debates" with individuals on this subject (both for and against, with hetero and homosexual people on both sides). While we may not agree on everything, I'm always open to discourse.

However, when I see things like this...

Originally Posted by AGDee

This includes legal status for things such as insurance benefits, etc. If 2 men live together in that relationship, and one wants the other to be the beneficiary, I guess that's something we can accept. BUT, I do not believe they should be allowed to "marry" or union together.

...I shut off completely. I find it amazing that people think it's OK for 2 wo/men to live together and "live in sin," but the minute they push for a legal (not necessarily religious) union, it's going against God's plan.

I'm also glad you brought up the fabric, hair cutting, pork, etc. When I've brought up the same things, I've been told that "times have changed, so our interpretations of things have to change" -- all things EXCEPT homosexuality. That's another thing that will quickly make me end a debate and walk away lol I also chuckle when folks flip-flop with the term ("I don't care if you get a union. Just don't call it marriage!" becomes "I don't want you to have the same rights" when civil unions are brought to the table).

My favorite quote on the subject (from Wanda Sykes): If you don't believe in same-sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. Simple as that.

[AOII Angel]

I love you, Dee. That was a well thought out, measured response. I would have just called him an idiot!

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I love you, Dee. That was a well thought out, measured response. I would have just called him an idiot!

I prefer to let them display their own ignorance to the world. His response to my last post was:

I do take the Bible literally. It is also true that New Testament provides a new covenant with the people that many of the old laws do not neccessarily apply. We do not dare judge, but knowing right from wrong is and should be guided by Biblical teachings. We all sin and yet as Christians, we should not become hung up on sin because that is not the purpose of Christ setting us free. "For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery" Gal 5:1. I'm not good at quoting scripture and do not ever try to impress others with my "lack of" knowledge. Being free applies to man's and God's law. Being free does not mean we avoid either.

I am not responding because I know there's no point because it is clear he is contradicting himself in his own post. I take it literally, but many of the old laws do not necessarily apply.. that says it all. "I pick and choose which rules to follow but other people need to follow my rules"

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I prefer to let them display their own ignorance to the world. His response to my last post was:

I do take the Bible literally. It is also true that New Testament provides a new covenant with the people that many of the old laws do not neccessarily apply. We do not dare judge, but knowing right from wrong is and should be guided by Biblical teachings. We all sin and yet as Christians, we should not become hung up on sin because that is not the purpose of Christ setting us free. "For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery" Gal 5:1. I'm not good at quoting scripture and do not ever try to impress others with my "lack of" knowledge. Being free applies to man's and God's law. Being free does not mean we avoid either.

I am not responding because I know there's no point because it is clear he is contradicting himself in his own post. I take it literally, but many of the old laws do not necessarily apply.. that says it all. "I pick and choose which rules to follow but other people need to follow my rules"

SMH. Not only that, he said right there that "we do not dare judge..." Ummm.

As to the timing of Obama's announcement, no one needs to be grateful. It is self serving, but everything a politician does is. Obviously he had these opinions for awhile since he would no longer defend DOMA, but politics are politics. No sitting president is going to come out and say something that "inflammatory" without testing the waters first. Biden and the cabinet members said their piece without backlash, so the President got to plan his entrance strategically on the morning after NC made an ass of itself.