Marissa Alexander Stood Her ground...and was Denied by Florida

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

IMany many many times in abusive relationships, the abuser has cut the victim off from any outside help, up to and including forcing them to quit work or school, so they are financially dependent on the abuser.

That doesn't seem to be the case here as she was able to obtain a restraining order against him. Also, the only side this article tells of the story is the side the article wants to portray as a victim.

A judge and jury heard the evidence. We didn't. They were in a much better position to judge her guilty.

Comparing this to the Zimmerman case is just impossible. Totally different set of facts.

"Counseling at the YMCA" (that's another thing, not all YMCAs are created equal and some can barely stay open) isn't going to fix that.

YWCA... not YMCA. But there are programs everywhere.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DGTess

They prevent nothing.

"Direct" is not the same thing as "prevent."

Even your post acknowledges that many behaviors are a result of people (beforehand) misinterpreting and misapplying the law as it relates to their (present or future) behavior.

Originally Posted by DGTess

Without getting in to your irrational hatred of my gun-control opinions....

Read my post again.

And calm down.

Originally Posted by DGTess

...look at the meaning of a stand-your-ground law. It states that a person need not turn tail and run from attacks; that s/he may defend life and safety as necessary. Eliminating the law takes away personal responsibility for one's safety and implies the bigger, badder party will always win. I don't want to live in that world.

"Stand your ground" laws exist in a few states and what it means to "stand your ground" can vary by state. The intent is supposedly to support the use of deadly force in self-defense where there is a reasonable perception of threat. However, what all of this means is where the confusion comes in. It is seen as going beyond the self-defense laws that some states already have. What is the difference between self-defense and "stand your ground"?

[DGTess]

"Stand your ground" laws exist in a few states and what it means to "stand your ground" can vary by state. The intent is supposedly to support the use of deadly force in self-defense where there is a reasonable perception of threat. However, what all of this means is where the confusion comes in. It is seen as going beyond the self-defense laws that some states already have. What is the difference between self-defense and "stand your ground"?

Sorry. I assumed you knew what you were talking about when you stated that stand-your-ground laws are bull**** and must be eliminated. FLORIDA's law, 2011 statutes, chapter 776, "Justifiable Use of Force" does not seem to me to be "unclearly stated." The operative section states: "(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Self-defense can be anywhere. Some jurisdictions permit the use of deadly force in self defense only after demonstrating submission by avoiding conflict and then taking steps to retreat and demonstrate an intention not to fight.

Stand-your-ground laws allow one to engage in self-defense, using appropriate force up to and including deadly force if required, anywhere s/he is legally permitted to be. There is no duty to turn tail and run. There is, in almost all if not all jurisdictions, a requirement not to initiate or escalate the encounter. Read the rest of the Florida statute section. It is not permissible to instigate or escalate the situation, then using deadly force.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

What is the difference between self-defense and "stand your ground"?

Rhetorical question alert.

Originally Posted by DGTess

Sorry. I assumed you knew what you were talking about when you stated that stand-your-ground laws are bull**** and must be eliminated. FLORIDA's law, 2011 statutes, chapter 776, "Justifiable Use of Force" does not seem to me to be "unclearly stated." The operative section states: "(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Self-defense can be anywhere. Some jurisdictions permit the use of deadly force in self defense only after demonstrating submission by avoiding conflict and then taking steps to retreat and demonstrate an intention not to fight.

Stand-your-ground laws allow one to engage in self-defense, using appropriate force up to and including deadly force if required, anywhere s/he is legally permitted to be. There is no duty to turn tail and run. There is, in almost all if not all jurisdictions, a requirement not to initiate or escalate the encounter. Read the rest of the Florida statute section. It is not permissible to instigate or escalate the situation, then using deadly force.

In other words, what "Stand Your Ground" means varies by state and it is an overstated and exaggerated version of self-defense which has sparked some people to misinterpret and misapply the law. Thanks for thinking you cleared that up. LOL. This is all one big gooblygoob of exaggeration and redundancy. Smells like bullshit.

It is already the case that what constitutes self-defense varies by jurisdiction and not all jurisdictions have "duty to retreat" for self-defense.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That doesn't seem to be the case here as she was able to obtain a restraining order against him.

What does obtaining a restraining order have to do with a person's financial situation????? Or do you mean the "outside help" part? That is not the kind of "outside help" I meant.

You can have enough PFAs to paper your house with, but if your abusive partner has cut you off from family, friends, school and career to the point that you have no practical support system, they don't amount to jack shit as far as actually changing your situation. PFAs don't come with a $100 gift card to Target.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What does obtaining a restraining order have to do with a person's financial situation????? Or do you mean the "outside help" part? That is not the kind of "outside help" I meant.

Depends on the state, I'm sure. Around here it sure as heck doesn't hurt to have an attorney fill out the paperwork and attend the hearing. That takes money.

You can have enough PFAs to paper your house with, but if your abusive partner has cut you off from family, friends, school and career to the point that you have no practical support system, they don't amount to jack shit as far as actually changing your situation. PFAs don't come with a $100 gift card to Target.

There's nothing here to suggest that's the case.

[DrPhil]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/13/justice/florida-stand-your-ground-release/

She is set for a new trial. I believe her sentence was harsh for a "warning shot" but I also believe it is neither self-defense nor "stand your ground" (*cough* BULLSHIT *cough*) when you go to your car to get a gun. If you are free enough to go to your car to get a gun, you are potentially free enough to drive away or run away or something.

As for "stand your ground" and self-defense, in general, I was happy Trevor Dooley's dumbass was convicted. I just want these arrests, trials, and convictions to be equally applied across race and ethnicity. Joe Horn can still kiss my ass.