Starting a fraternity chapter, looking for advice part 2

[Psi U MC Vito]

There is no real typical process. Each case is one that is completely different from the others. So much depends on the org, then the campus culture. Realisticaly you need to get people together, then start looking for a national to back you. If it is just you or a couple of people, nobody is going to want to put in the effort. Also we have a very legitimate reason for asking you why you didn't rush elsewhere. If you can't articulate to us why you want a different fraternity then any of the ones currently on campus, how do you expect to convince potential people on your campus?

[supahotboi]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Aside from the ridiculosity of asking questions on a public forum and then giving (futile) instructions on who can and can't respond and how they should and shouldn't respond, you realize, don't you, that you got very pertinent advice in the "out of hand" thread from someone with a great deal of personal experience about fraternity chapter operations generally and starting a chapter specificially, and you blew him and his very good advice off?

I didn't blow Kevin off at all. He had a lot of good points. But I don't agree on his perspectives 100% though. His organization pays guys to upkeep his fraternity. I cannot relate to that. I find it hard to understand where he is coming from.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I just wanted to point out how much I adore made-up words like this (from those with the consciencity to realize that they are made up).

I also wanted to post in this thread to piss off the OP. Generally I'd find a more witty way to state that fact, but in this case, it's just not worth it.

Your reported.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Anyone can post in any thread they want to. This isn't a closed forum. If that's what you want, start a Facebook group where you can admit only those who you deem "worthy" to post.



Again, THIS IS HOW FRATERNITIES WORK. Unless you show some initiative, or unless you're at a school that is going to give the fraternity lots of $$$ and prestige being there, no one is going to hold your hand. And lots of people - the student life office, guys who are rushing, volunteers from national organizations - are going to ask why you want to do this and what you found lacking in the fraternities that are presently there. If you consider these "very personal questions" that you refuse to answer, NO ONE is going to want to help you.



Have you tried to get in touch with any of the alumni of fraternities that aren't there at the present moment? They might be of some help to you in recolonizing a chapter. Have you looked on Facebook? Asked the student life office to help you find fraternity alumni?

And if you are only thinking NOW of reaching out to other groups (fraternities or sororities) for help, this is another huge part of your problem. Do the majority of students on campus know you're trying to do this? Did you have any interactions with the current sororities or fraternities? What was their reaction? If the Greek community doesn't support you, you are going to fail.

I'm curious, but 33girl, are you a girl? No offense but I am not interested in the woman's perspective of fraternity life. That's like asking me to give you advice on the perspective of sorority life from my point of view, it's not going to make any sense.

Like I said, I've been in talks with a guy who is part of the national fraternity. He is an alumni, he is a volunteer, he is NOT part of the expansion team. We haven't reached out to much alumni and maybe that would be a good idea. Again, this is more things I'm going to have to talk to the office about.

I know a few members of the current greek community that I have met through other means, but I don't expect much out of them. I never at a point in this stage were interested in getting involved with them since there isn't much they can really do for us.

Out of the people I've talked to, they are all very interested in Greek life expanding. I've talked to founders of another fraternity that was founded last year at their school and their process was the HQ coming down, drafting up an organization and going from there. My situation seems to be really unusual compared to how others got started. At this point I am looking to see what fraternities are coming here and looking to start something up since it doesn't seem like its the other way around.

The fraternities that come to my school is not because of the students wanted them to come. The last 3 organizations that have came in the last 3 years was not because a bunch of students were interested in a fraternity and got together and tried to start one, but because the HQ is doing expansion this way.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

There is no real typical process. Each case is one that is completely different from the others. So much depends on the org, then the campus culture. Realisticaly you need to get people together, then start looking for a national to back you. If it is just you or a couple of people, nobody is going to want to put in the effort. Also we have a very legitimate reason for asking you why you didn't rush elsewhere. If you can't articulate to us why you want a different fraternity then any of the ones currently on campus, how do you expect to convince potential people on your campus?

But the issue is of constructing relationships completely based on this. Are you telling me that I should go out there, find random joes or people I hardly know, and hang out with them just to start a fraternity? Since many people I have talked to that are interested are just waiting just like me and my other 2 friends. One of my friends I met was through the idea of trying to start this and I barely have any relationship with it and to be honest it is kind of awkward. He is interested in the idea, yet doesn't understand too much of what goes into it or has a clue (which honestly I don't blame him) and I feel like lots of people are going to get that vibe unless they see something that's official and something that is real and not just some underground mock idea. I just don't see people who are going to commit a lot of time and effort into something that they have no idea of what it's really about or what's to come. Just think, its insane if someone actually does follow through on something they are completely cluess about.

I'm not going to explain everything here because it's just leading to trolls. Really, it won't matter to anyone on here why I am doing what I am doing and nobody really flat up cares, so I save myself the efforts for people who can actually do something for me. It's bad enough half the posts here are by grown ups that still talk like they are in elementary school. God help them for how they act in real life.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

Your reported.

My reported what?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

My reported what?

OP - You are asking the same people the same questions. You are not going to get different advice.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

I didn't blow Kevin off at all. He had a lot of good points. But I don't agree on his perspectives 100% though. His organization pays guys to upkeep his fraternity. I cannot relate to that. I find it hard to understand where he is coming from.

You misread. I stated that we have a very successful chapter which is so successful because they are so very effective in summer recruitment. Summer recruitment is also treated very seriously within my much more modest (but respectable) chapter. I gave those examples to show you how much of an opportunity summer could be for you.

As far as expansion goes, we got started up when the University opened up to expansion. It sent out letters soliciting groups to come onto our campus and establish themselves with the blessings of IFC and campus life. Several groups presented and Sigma Nu was selected. Beginning in the Fall of 1999, HQ sent a paid consultant to recruit an initial group of guys to comprise the beginnings of the colony. I was a part of that group (but I didn't come on until the Fall of '00). The expansion consultant stayed for one semester, helped with the establishment of our candidate program, left a bunch of books and benchmarks to reach and then we had to figure out how to be a fraternity. It was mostly trial and error. Mostly error. We took three years to colonize. In that time, we fluctuated between single digits and finally got up to around 35 before we petitioned HQ for a charter. Maintaining a chapter once it's chartered is tough to do as well, but you haven't even been established as a colony yet.

Why I say what you are doing is a little suspect procedurally is that yes, I do understand that sometimes, organizations force their way into a campus and into an IFC by establishing colonies and working outside the system until they can force the system to embrace them, that's not really the way it's done in most places. Usually, the existing organizations have decided that in order to improve the quality of their Greek Life system, they want to add an additional organization. They then select one of those groups from a list of applicants. Then, that organization will then dedicate significant assets to getting that group off the ground. A group of 3-4 men calling themselves a chapter is going to be a money-losing proposition for a national organization, so there is significant reason why they invest heavily in creating a strong organization.

Maybe that gives some background into why I think your entire situation is a little suspect and that you seem to have gone about things a bit backasswardly.

No offense but I am not interested in the woman's perspective

Life lesson. Never say those words together. What comes after it or before it won't matter much. Also, I'm an adviser of a relatively successful chapter. I often inquire with NPC advisers as to their best practices because frankly, NPC groups have evolved as organizations far past what most NIC groups have been capable of in terms of membership development, property management, expansion, recruitment, etc. Sometimes, the smartest thing you can possibly do as a fraternity member is find out what the sororities are doing and then attempt to duplicate their success.

The fraternities that come to my school is not because of the students wanted them to come. The last 3 organizations that have came in the last 3 years was not because a bunch of students were interested in a fraternity and got together and tried to start one, but because the HQ is doing expansion this way.

That is actually something you'll want to bring to the forefront of your discussions with possible organizations you're wanting to be a part of. It sounds like there's a market for expansion and that if they dedicate sufficient resources, they'll get a good return on investment.

But the issue is of constructing relationships completely based on this. Are you telling me that I should go out there, find random joes or people I hardly know, and hang out with them just to start a fraternity?

Yeah, that's pretty much what recruitment is. You get to know different prospects, if they're of quality, and only after you've made friends with them, bring up the fraternity thing. It's pretty much dude dating. That's recruitment in a nutshell.

I'm not going to explain everything here because it's just leading to trolls.

Try to see where we're coming from. You've been given a lot of good advice. I can say that because I have been very close to where you are right now (granted with quite a bit more organizational support, which is something you could fix if you found a group which wanted to dedicate actual resources to a colonization effort). I know exactly what you need to do to be successful. You have other ideas. What you do with that is up to you and unless you're a Sigma Nu colony, I really don't have a stake.

You need to listen to the advice that's given and be more gentlemanly about it. Many of the folks responding do have significant expansion experience and are extremely experienced in the operations of a fraternity or sorority. Finally, never doubt the wisdom of the ladies of GC.

[supahotboi]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

.....



You were saying?

At least the rest of us can communicate in a way that proves we actually attended elememtary school. I can't say the same for you.


Oh, but I'm sorry, guys... I have a vagina, so I guess I should skedaddle.

No, I disagree greatly with your statement. The maturity this board brings is incredibly questionable. That's great that most of the threads I see your posts in are basically sandboxes that have no structure, but almost everyone who comes on here looking for answers or for some help is going to have the **** scared out of them. You need to not just look at it from your own point of view. It's not just me you affect, but probably thousands of others.

If I knew nothing about Greek Life and this was my first impression, I would conclude that they are scum of the earth.

And no, I am not telling girls to lay off for no reason. Sororities have a lot more rules, formalities, politics, and other things involved with them that are a lot different than fraternities. Your perspective is not something I will be able to relate to easily.

Originally Posted by Kevin

You misread. I stated that we have a very successful chapter which is so successful because they are so very effective in summer recruitment. Summer recruitment is also treated very seriously within my much more modest (but respectable) chapter. I gave those examples to show you how much of an opportunity summer could be for you.

As far as expansion goes, we got started up when the University opened up to expansion. It sent out letters soliciting groups to come onto our campus and establish themselves with the blessings of IFC and campus life. Several groups presented and Sigma Nu was selected. Beginning in the Fall of 1999, HQ sent a paid consultant to recruit an initial group of guys to comprise the beginnings of the colony. I was a part of that group (but I didn't come on until the Fall of '00). The expansion consultant stayed for one semester, helped with the establishment of our candidate program, left a bunch of books and benchmarks to reach and then we had to figure out how to be a fraternity. It was mostly trial and error. Mostly error. We took three years to colonize. In that time, we fluctuated between single digits and finally got up to around 35 before we petitioned HQ for a charter. Maintaining a chapter once it's chartered is tough to do as well, but you haven't even been established as a colony yet.

Why I say what you are doing is a little suspect procedurally is that yes, I do understand that sometimes, organizations force their way into a campus and into an IFC by establishing colonies and working outside the system until they can force the system to embrace them, that's not really the way it's done in most places. Usually, the existing organizations have decided that in order to improve the quality of their Greek Life system, they want to add an additional organization. They then select one of those groups from a list of applicants. Then, that organization will then dedicate significant assets to getting that group off the ground. A group of 3-4 men calling themselves a chapter is going to be a money-losing proposition for a national organization, so there is significant reason why they invest heavily in creating a strong organization.

Maybe that gives some background into why I think your entire situation is a little suspect and that you seem to have gone about things a bit backasswardly.





Life lesson. Never say those words together. What comes after it or before it won't matter much. Also, I'm an adviser of a relatively successful chapter. I often inquire with NPC advisers as to their best practices because frankly, NPC groups have evolved as organizations far past what most NIC groups have been capable of in terms of membership development, property management, expansion, recruitment, etc. Sometimes, the smartest thing you can possibly do as a fraternity member is find out what the sororities are doing and then attempt to duplicate their success.



That is actually something you'll want to bring to the forefront of your discussions with possible organizations you're wanting to be a part of. It sounds like there's a market for expansion and that if they dedicate sufficient resources, they'll get a good return on investment.



Yeah, that's pretty much what recruitment is. You get to know different prospects, if they're of quality, and only after you've made friends with them, bring up the fraternity thing. It's pretty much dude dating. That's recruitment in a nutshell.



Try to see where we're coming from. You've been given a lot of good advice. I can say that because I have been very close to where you are right now (granted with quite a bit more organizational support, which is something you could fix if you found a group which wanted to dedicate actual resources to a colonization effort). I know exactly what you need to do to be successful. You have other ideas. What you do with that is up to you and unless you're a Sigma Nu colony, I really don't have a stake.

You need to listen to the advice that's given and be more gentlemanly about it. Many of the folks responding do have significant expansion experience and are extremely experienced in the operations of a fraternity or sorority. Finally, never doubt the wisdom of the ladies of GC.

Again, everything you have said is pretty helpful. I appreciate the advice. My only thing with the ladies here is that fraternities and sororities operate in two different fashions. Their recruitment is different, their pledging is different, their interests are different, their operations are different, etc etc. To me, it doesn't really interest me what they have to say because they are talking about a different world. It's just not too applicable for this situation.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

I didn't blow Kevin off at all. He had a lot of good points. But I don't agree on his perspectives 100% though. His organization pays guys to upkeep his fraternity. I cannot relate to that. I find it hard to understand where he is coming from.

Actually MC was referring to knight-shadow, who gave you some really great advice.

I'm curious, but 33girl, are you a girl? No offense but I am not interested in the woman's perspective of fraternity life. That's like asking me to give you advice on the perspective of sorority life from my point of view, it's not going to make any sense.

Actually she is also a member of a fraternity, granted it is a service fraternity, but similar issues.

Like I said, I've been in talks with a guy who is part of the national fraternity. He is an alumni, he is a volunteer, he is NOT part of the expansion team. We haven't reached out to much alumni and maybe that would be a good idea. Again, this is more things I'm going to have to talk to the office about.

This will only help you if you are attempting a recolonization.

But the issue is of constructing relationships completely based on this. Are you telling me that I should go out there, find random joes or people I hardly know, and hang out with them just to start a fraternity?

Well, yeah. That is what rush essentially is honestly.

Originally Posted by supahotboi

If I knew nothing about Greek Life and this was my first impression, I would conclude that they are scum of the earth.

Because we are giving you advice you don't want to hear?

And no, I am not telling girls to lay off for no reason. Sororities have a lot more rules, formalities, politics, and other things involved with them that are a lot different than fraternities. Your perspective is not something I will be able to relate to easily.

You see having more rules to be a bad thing? Honestly I wish that more NIC fraternities would act like a NPC fraternity or sorority.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's pretty much dude dating. That's recruitment in a nutshell.

Hands down, those may be the best lines in this thread.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Actually she [33girl] is also a member of a fraternity, granted it is a service fraternity, but similar issues.

Just to be clear, she is also a member of an NPC sorority.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Hands down, those may be the best lines in this thread.



Just to be clear, she is also a member of an NPC sorority.

Guess I kind of assumed that was understood by my also. Thanks for clarifying though.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Hands down, those may be the best lines in this thread.

Or in this forum.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

Again, everything you have said is pretty helpful. I appreciate the advice.

You're welcome. Any time.

My only thing with the ladies here is that fraternities and sororities operate in two different fashions. Their recruitment is different, their pledging is different, their interests are different, their operations are different, etc etc. To me, it doesn't really interest me what they have to say because they are talking about a different world. It's just not too applicable for this situation.

I know nothing about your background. You shouldn't pretend to know anything about theirs. Automatically assuming that they don't have perfectly good advice because they are female and/or don't have first-hand knowledge, which is another huge assumption doesn't place you on very firm ground. We had a lot of ladies who were instrumental in our colonization efforts. Otherwise, many folks here have had a lot of opportunity to gain a great deal of valuable knowledge through firsthand experience and through participation in this forum.

A lot of the advice they've given you is spot on.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You're welcome. Any time.



I know nothing about your background. You shouldn't pretend to know anything about theirs. Automatically assuming that they don't have perfectly good advice because they are female and/or don't have first-hand knowledge, which is another huge assumption doesn't place you on very firm ground. We had a lot of ladies who were instrumental in our colonization efforts. Otherwise, many folks here have had a lot of opportunity to gain a great deal of valuable knowledge through firsthand experience and through participation in this forum.

A lot of the advice they've given you is spot on.

I think that this is what bothers me the most - he is completely dismissing the advice from women, saying that they know nothing about fraternities.. When he isn't in one! Quite frankly, there could be some women here who know more than he does, but he's so quick to dismiss what they say simply because they can't join one.

What he fails to realize is that while fraternities and sororities are very different, there are also many similarities, and there's a lot of advice that can overlap and apply to both.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

What he fails to realize is that while fraternities and sororities are very different, there are also many similarities, and there's a lot of advice that can overlap and apply to both.

Trust me. Last December when I was in negotiations to lease us a nicer house, I wasn't going to Sigma Nu or even other fraternities for plans on how to run the property. I was soliciting sororities to let me steal their lease agreements, risk management practices and business practices.

NPC groups are just so much more ridiculously evolved than NIC types when it comes to many things. To discard what y'all have accomplished as useless would not be a good decision.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by supahotboi

And no, I am not telling girls to lay off for no reason. Sororities have a lot more rules, formalities, politics, and other things involved with them that are a lot different than fraternities. Your perspective is not something I will be able to relate to easily.

Again, everything you have said is pretty helpful. I appreciate the advice. My only thing with the ladies here is that fraternities and sororities operate in two different fashions. Their recruitment is different, their pledging is different, their interests are different, their operations are different, etc etc. To me, it doesn't really interest me what they have to say because they are talking about a different world. It's just not too applicable for this situation.

Did you read my (or any of the other ladies') posts AT ALL? I mean, actually read and process what they were saying? No one is telling you to run this like a sorority, rush like a sorority, or do things regarding expansion like a sorority. If that were the case, every single female - including me - would be saying "Don't put a lot of thought/time into this until you go to the Greek Life office, ask about numbers/total/quota over the past several years, and see if the campus is open for expansion." That's how NPC sororities expand and NO ONE has said that to you.

Your misogynistic attitude combined with your laziness is just ridiculous, and neither is an attribute that a colonizing member of any GLO needs to have.

[ASTalumna06]

It's bad enough half the posts here are by grown ups that still talk like they are in elementary school.

.....

Originally Posted by supahotboi

Your reported.

You were saying?

At least the rest of us can communicate in a way that proves we actually attended elememtary school. I can't say the same for you.


Oh, but I'm sorry, guys... I have a vagina, so I guess I should skedaddle.