The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

"Hateful action" is not a hate crime. A hate crime is a crime that is motivated by hatred toward, and therefore targeting of, a particular group of people/member of a particular group of people.

This is not solely based on the offender and victim being of different demographic characteristics. It is not enough that Zimmerman is Latino (some categorize him as white Hispanic) and Martin is Black. There has to be evidence that Zimmerman was targeting suspects on the basis of race OR was profiling suspects as being "unfamiliar" or "not belonging" because they were nonwhite.

I understand that. I am clear on the fact that this being called a 'hate crime' is not clear due to the evidence.

All I really want to see is that Florida gets this right and have enough evidence to make sure that the right sentence is passed and also the laws are closely examined so that someone else can safely walk down a street and not have to go through what both families are dealing with now.

And even though there are defined laws NOW that tells us what hate crimes are, it's still messed up how many people before James Byrd and others had to die before they were written...that's all.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I understand that. I am clear on the fact that this being called a 'hate crime' is not clear due to the evidence.

All I really want to see is that Florida gets this right and have enough evidence to make sure that the right sentence is passed and also the laws are closely examined so that someone else can safely walk down a street and not have to go through what both families are dealing with now.

And even though there are defined laws NOW that tells us what hate crimes are, it's still messed up how many people before James Byrd and others had to die before they were written...that's all.

Good.

There are a lot of people out there who have declared this a hate crime with no understanding of what a hate crime is.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Good.

There are a lot of people out there who have declared this a hate crime with no understanding of what a hate crime is.

If somehow this does get picked up by the feds as this being a hate crime, I wonder what else besides the recording and the supposed story about his warning others neighbors about black people they would have to go on.


Well, either way, I won't worry about that right now. I am just glad that step one has been done, he has been arrested and hopefully this will be done by this time next year.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

If somehow this does get picked up by the feds as this being a hate crime, I wonder what else besides the recording and the supposed story about his warning others neighbors about black people they would have to go on.

Well, either way, I won't worry about that right now. I am just glad that step one has been done, he has been arrested and hopefully this will be done by this time next year.

I'd guess the feds would be looking at the racial breakdown percentages of the "suspects/incidents" GZ's reported to police, any patterns tending to show bias.

If this goes to trial, it may be interesting. Of course the evidence will show, but it'll be interesting to see Corey's motivations behind the 2nd degree murder charge, whether she really think's she can make that case or if it was more of a "hammer" to use in a plea offer if it goes that way.

Either way, I applaud Trayvon's parents, their discipline, dignity and show of faith in the face of this nightmare.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

So, basically, wearing a hoodie makes everyone look suspect?

No one should ever get shot because 'they fit the description'. When it becomes ok to shoot people on sight for them being in the wrong place and not looking like the status quo for that area, then it just proves that we are moving backwards not forwards.

Also, , his father (with whom he was staying with) also lived in that gated community so he had EVERY RIGHT to be there.

You say there are real hate crimes out there? Gunning someone down in cold blood for no other reason than they look suspicious IMO is a hateful action but I am not the court. If Zimmerman wanted to play hero, all he simply had to do was stay inside and let the cops do their job and we really wouldn't have to have this convo right now.

Where did I say it was ok to shoot someone because they fit a description? I never said it was ok for him to shoot AT ALL.

I've never heard that his father lived IN the gated community so that is my bad.

Originally Posted by agzg

1 teen =/= group of teens. 1:30am =/= evening.



Is this the point where you try to convince us you're not racist because you know black people or something?



None of this illustrates that what Zimmerman did was right. But cool story, bro. Glad you didn't shoot those teenagers.

I didn't realize gated communities were high-class ghettos where the only people that are ever allowed in are the ones that live there. Is it really outside of your realm of understanding that Trayvon Martin was allowed to be in that neighborhood and it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to assume that he could walk to the convenience store and back without getting shot?



Is this the part of the story where you accuse people of being mean and shutting down your opinions? "I'm going to get flamed for this" - would you like me to call you a whambulance?

Listen - I'm fine with giving Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt and allowing the courts to decide whether he is or is not guilty. That's totally fine. But portraying the victim as "up to something" isn't helpful. Practice what you preach - you just shared a longass story that's completely irrelevant to prove your point that, what? You think he's innocent?

No it's the point where I say that I could care less what color or status or class someone is. If you look suspicious, I will be suspicious.

The whole point of gated communities is to keep out people who don't live there or have no connection to the place. I have honestly never seen any article that said his father lived in there.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

"Hateful action" is not a hate crime. A hate crime is a crime that is motivated by hatred toward, and therefore targeting of, a particular group of people/member of a particular group of people.

This is not solely based on the offender and victim being of different demographic characteristics. It is not enough that Zimmerman is Latino (some categorize him as white Hispanic) and Martin is Black. There has to be evidence that Zimmerman was targeting suspects on the basis of race OR was profiling suspects as being "unfamiliar" or "not belonging" because they were nonwhite.

*****

There are many predominantly white (I assume this particular community is predominantly, someone correct me if I'm wrong) communities in this country where a nonwhite person is automatically questioned. This is more likely to happen in predominantly white neighborhoods because white neighborhoods are more likely to feel empowered and socially advantaged enough to be so vigilant (not vigilante). I have been "politely challenged" by white neighbors if my hair or style of dress is different than when the last time they saw me. I have also been challenged when visiting my parents' neighborhoods in which my parents have lived for 40+ years. "Are you here to see so-and-so." Would I get these challenges and questions if I was white--probably not unless I was a particularly suspicious looking white person. I am not a suspicious looking Black person unless whites have already mapped out the token nonwhites in their gated community and paid particular attention to prevent their community from getting too many "of those people."

I'm all for attentive neighbors and neighborwood watch. I'm not all for only paying attention when you see an "other" and taking it upon yourself to be the police.

Completely agree.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Where did I say it was ok to shoot someone because they fit a description? I never said it was ok for him to shoot AT ALL.

I never said that you did; I was merely re-emphasizing the point.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I've never heard that his father lived IN the gated community so that is my bad.

Yes it is as it's been in just about every news article that's discussed and still it's a bad judgement call to try and say who belongs where. Walking down a street is not suspicious. Walking down the street casing cars and homes, MIGHT BE.