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Originally Posted by SWTXBelle
Maybe not where you are, but then again, you believe dead people voting only happens in three cities. I also don't understand "This old methods of bulk voting for known dead voters" - I assume you mean it is an old method of having dead voters vote in bulk, or are you referencing some additional methods, plural?
FWIW, I was an election judge for years in Hays County. MC, it was before the HAVA was passed in 2002, so I was unaware of the first-time voter id procedure.
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For what it's worth, HAVA also requires states to have centralized and computerized voter registration records that are regularly cross-referenced with other state-maintained databases, such as DMV and vital statistics. This means deceased people are regularly removed from the registration records, so the chances of a dead person still being on the voter registration lists (and therefore being deemed eligible to vote at the polls) is not nearly as great as it once was.
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Fake ids - If identification is too easy to replicate then that needs to be addressed. In this day and age it should be easier than ever to make a difficult to reproduce form of identification (I know the new passports include technology making it far more difficult to make fake ones.)
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It is easier and it is done. Most states have incorporated a number of security features into drivers licenses, for example. But often, those security features require special equipment to "read," or they involve aspects that only a trained eye can recognize and distinguish from fakes.
Are we going to provide poll workers, almost all of whom are volunteers, with the necessary equipment or training to identify which IDs are real and which are fakes? If we are, then how do we justify the expense and trouble of that if we haven't first determined that voter fraud is an actual problem instead of an assumed problem
and that requiring photo IDs will effectively address that problem? If we're not going to provide them with those resources and that training, then what's the point in requiring photo IDs to begin with?
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Originally Posted by SWTXBelle
If fake identification is the problem that some on this thread have indicated then the question is, how big of a problem?
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Which is precisely the same question that goes for voter fraud: If voter fraud is the problem that some on this thread have indicated then the question is, how big of a problem?
I still say it's putting the cart before the horse to advocate a solution when we don't really know if there's a problem or if the solution advocated will effectively address that problem. That's especially the case when the proposed solution comes with problems of its own.
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Please note that the issue was raised by those who believe voters should not be required to show id in order to vote.
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Since I raised the issue of fake IDs, I'll ask that you please not put words in my mouth. I clearly said upthread that I have no problem in theory with requiring photo IDs. But since a photo ID requirement can bring its own problems, and since I live in a state where currently
no ID is required (beyond the first-time voter who registered by mail), I think the onus is on those advocating photo ID requirements to establish that voter fraud is more than an occasional (or anecdotal) problem
and that requiring photo IDs will effectively address that problem.
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