Keeping College Students from Voting

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

(I posted the CBS News article on this. )

You did indeed. In my post-Christmas haze, I missed it.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

The problem I have with "there are no voter fraud problems" is that what should be said is "there have not been many documented voter fraud problems" or "the way we define voter fraud means there is none". I would argue that requiring id would prevent it, whether or not we have documented voter fraud.

It doesn't work that way legally. Broadly speaking, if a state is going to impose a requirement that can have discriminatory effects, then to be able to defend itself against an Equal Protection claim under the Fourteenth Amendment, the state will have to show it has a compelling reason for imposing the requirement and that it tailored the requirement to meet that compelling reason but went no further. The possibility of voter fraud likely won't be good enough. The state will likely have to show that voter fraud is an actual, documented problem and that the photo ID requirement goes no further than necessary to address that problem.

The question I have is this: If the requirement of a photo ID doesn't keep people under 21 from getting fake IDs and buying cigarettes or alcohol, why do we think it will keep people who are determined to commit voter fraud from actually committing voter fraud? If you get past the first hurdle -- is this a real problem or not? -- you still have the second hurdle. Will this remedy, or at least lessen, the problem (without creating other problems)?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Dead people voting - that doesn't happen any more? Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck voting - no longer a problem? Good to know.

There are three places that are famous for the dead voters- NYC, Chicago and New Orleans. Do you live in one of those places? As for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, those are the dumbest memes trotted out by republicans every time they want to claim voter fraud. Read recent reports about they recall of Gov Walker in Wisconsin and the claim Mickey Mouse is single handedly trying to recall the governor, too. Easy fix...train your poll workers better, don't disenfranchise every voter without an ID.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

That's what I figured ... completely understand.

The connection between "due process" and rights for the people (and onus on the authorities/state to follow prescribed processes to protect those rights), though, doesn't play all that well with what is essentially a poll tax - and, quite honestly, requiring ID is a form of poll tax.

Granted, it's a VERY low tax, money-wise - indeed, most of the 'tax' is on effort - and there are some perceived positives to guaranteeing each person is who they say they are. But it's still a poll tax. Whether the positives outweigh the rights issues is up to each person - for me, there are pretty easy solutions that don't involve this type of ID.

Depending on the state it may be more onerous or expensive than in another. In AZ, you can get an ID and not have to renew it for 40 years! In Louisiana, for the same cost, you have to renew every four years.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The question I have is this: If the requirement of a photo ID doesn't keep people under 21 from getting fake IDs and buying cigarettes or alcohol, why do we think it will keep people who are determined to commit voter fraud from actually committing voter fraud? If you get past the first hurdle -- is this a real problem or not? -- you still have the second hurdle. Will this remedy, or at least lessen, the problem (without creating other problems)?

This! If the poll workers can't even stop Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck from voting, how are they going to identify the fake ideas? Highly motivated vote fraud won't be stopped by IDs. We should, though, be concerned about the security of our electronic voting systems which are vulnerable to voting fraud.