Teacher Accused of Statutory Rape and Other Offenses

[southernbelle14]

I also found somewhere that she was a fifth and sixth grade teacher, making it impossible for any of her victims to have been her students.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

I also found somewhere that she was a fifth and sixth grade teacher, making it impossible for any of her victims to have been her students.

Um, no. She is a middle-school teacher, which usually does not include 5th grade. I'm not sure if you are implying that a 6th grader could not be sexually mature, but if so you are incorrect. I've taught 6th graders who could grow mustaches. If nothing else, they may have been former students.

[southernbelle14]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Um, no. She is a middle-school teacher, which usually does not include 5th grade. I'm not sure if you are implying that a 6th grader could not be sexually mature, but if so you are incorrect. I've taught 6th graders who could grow mustaches. If nothing else, they may have been former students.

Did you read anything I said?
First, her youngest victim was FOURTEEN. that would mean 8th or 9th grade. It doesn't say which in any of the articles I found.
Second, look up crestview middle school. This is where she taught. It is 5th through 8th grade.
Third, in at least one article I found it stated that she was a 5th and 6th grade reading teacher.

What conclusions does this information lead to? The students she supplied alcohol to and had sex with, while possibly former students, were NOT IN HER CLASS AT THE TIME. And her connections to them to be able to do all this were through her teenage daughter, which is still super creepy, just on a slightly different way.
Please actually READ what I say next time.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

Did you read anything I said?
First, her youngest victim was FOURTEEN. that would mean 8th or 9th grade. It doesn't say which in any of the articles I found.
Second, look up crestview middle school. This is where she taught. It is 5th through 8th grade.
Third, in at least one article I found it stated that she was a 5th and 6th grade reading teacher.

What conclusions does this information lead to? The students she supplied alcohol to and had sex with, while possibly former students, were NOT IN HER CLASS AT THE TIME. And her connections to them to be able to do all this were through her teenage daughter, which is still super creepy, just on a slightly different way.
Please actually READ what I say next time.

You are making a lot of assumptions and doing them very rudely, BTW. Just bc she taught 6th grade doesn't mean she would have access to older boys. Teachers can and do precept at recess, lunch, assemblies, etc. Children are also not always on level. Having an older child in her class is not impossible. Jumping to the assumption that she used her teenage daughter to fish for her victims is a large jump.

[southernbelle14]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

You are making a lot of assumptions and doing them very rudely, BTW. Just bc she taught 6th grade doesn't mean she would have access to older boys. Teachers can and do precept at recess, lunch, assemblies, etc. Children are also not always on level. Having an older child in her class is not impossible. Jumping to the assumption that she used her teenage daughter to fish for her victims is a large jump.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml

Many of the students are thought to have been friends of her teenage daughter who attended the alcohol fuelled parties.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...d-sex-students

A grand jury has indicted Tipton, Tennessee middle school teacher Cindy Clifton on a total of 53 charges, including 11 counts of rape by an authority figure, stemming from parties she allegedly threw at her Covington, Tennessee home where she supplied alcohol to her teenage daughter and her friends before having sex with some of the boys present

Actually, this is why I am making these assumptions.
And I apologize if you think I am rude. I personally thought SWTX seemed rather condescending, which I was not happy with due to the fact that I addressed the issues initially. But maybe I misinterpreted.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

What conclusions does this information lead to? The students she supplied alcohol to and had sex with, while possibly former students, were NOT IN HER CLASS AT THE TIME. And her connections to them to be able to do all this were through her teenage daughter, which is still super creepy, just on a slightly different way.

Why does this matter? If she is plying minors with alcohol and having sex with them in her own home, who cares if she randomly met them at Walmart? Honestly...who cares? The point is this woman is a predator, and it's frightening to think she was in a position to teach other children, if this is how she treated children in her own home!

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

You are making a lot of assumptions and doing them very rudely, BTW. Just bc she taught 6th grade doesn't mean she would have access to older boys. Teachers can and do precept at recess, lunch, assemblies, etc. Children are also not always on level. Having an older child in her class is not impossible. Jumping to the assumption that she used her teenage daughter to fish for her victims is a large jump.

THIS. I had a 6th grader who was 15. "Impossible" is a strong word to use, SB, and what I was addressing. Hence the casual use of "ummm . . . "

In the state of Texas, and I believe in other states, minors may drink with their parents. However, they may NOT purchase alcohol for or allow other minors to drink.Any way you slice it, if this woman is indeed guilty of the charges she made serious judgements in error and took advantage of minors.

As to the rest - I leave it to a jury of my peers to decide where the rudeness and condescension are located.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I read an article a while back that makes me think twice about the bold.

An 18 year old senior had sex with his ~16 year old girlfriend and was arrested. Do I think this person should have the same punishment as a 42 year old having sex with a 15 year old? Nope.

ETA: Found it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Dixon
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in594110.shtml

In Pennsylvania the law is 18, or within 4 years. This would mean if a 16 year old, for example, has a boyfriend who is 19, and is sexually active with him, he is not considered to be committing a crime. I think it makes more sense this way, although the combination of 14 and 18 seems a bit concerning- a 14 year old is basically still a child. But if some kid is 17 and her boyfriend is 19, that's not much of a stretch and isn't really the same as a 17 year old who has a 35 year old boyfriend.

[southernbelle14]

CLARIFICATION SINCE NO ONE CAN READ ANYTHING FOR WHAT IT IS:

I stated that she is no less guilty or responsible for what she did because of these facts.
I was only stating these facts because people were wondering how these kids went about asking her for alcohol, saying she must have been crossing lines in the classroom, but with these details we have no reason to assume she was.
And how often are there 14-15 year old sixth graders really?
My point was merely that this is a little more understandable with these details clarified. And by understandable I do not mean in the sense that it is understandable why she did it. I mean it makes more sense how it happened. It wasn't just some 6th graders coming up to her like "hey can you buy us alcohol." It was a mother providing alcohol for her daughter and her friends, which is still wrong but more realistic seeming.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

And how often are there 14-15 year old sixth graders really?

It only takes it happening one time to keep it from being, in your words, "impossible."

Stop yelling. Stop throwing around charges of rudeness and condescension. And consider the possibility that if numerous people are misunderstanding your posts, the problem may not be in others not reading -- a claim you've made in more than one thread. It may be that you are not expressing yourself as clearly as you think you are. Or frankly, it may be that through some of your posts in earlier threads, you've predisposed people not to take you seriously.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

Okay, just to clarify, I'm not saying she is any less guilt or responsible due to this.
I just wanted to point out a couple things.
First, I've looked this up and all but one article say that the students were 14-17 years old. This being the case, some of them would not be her students.
Also, the third article drphil posted stated that she provided alcohol to her teenage daughter and her friends at parties thrown at her house. This is far from having been asked by students at school... Under these circumstances I do not believe you can assume she acted as a predator in the classroom. She had contact with these students because of her teenage daughter, not because she was teaching them.

I understand that you were clarifying the possible context for how she was able to victimize these minors. As you stated, this does not make a difference as far as minor laws are concerned.

It may make a difference for those who care whether they were her current students. Some people do care about that distinction, I don't, but some people do. Those are probably the same people who think an adult giving kids alcohol (in violation of state laws and in a binge drinking culture) is okay as long as the kids are the ones who asked for it and it is done outside of a school environment/relationship.

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

CLARIFICATION SINCE NO ONE CAN READ ANYTHING FOR WHAT IT IS

LOL. Breathe easy. No one was coming at you sideways. Threads take a certain tone especially when people feel strongly about a topic. Some GCers in this thread seemed to defend the accused or overstate the obvious "innocent until proven guilty." As I have stated, that would not have happened if this was a man with girls ages 14-17. Those posts set the tone for the remainder of the thread.

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

And how often are there 14-15 year old sixth graders really?

That depends on the school district. Anyway, belaboring this point and whether they were ever her students are relatively minute details that we all agree do not remove her from responsibility.

[southernbelle14]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

It only takes it happening one time to keep it from being, in your words, "impossible."

Stop yelling. Stop throwing around charges of rudeness and condescension. And consider the possibility that if numerous people are misunderstanding your posts, the problem may not be in others not reading -- a claim you've made in more than one thread. It may be that you are not expressing yourself as clearly as you think you are. Or frankly, it may be that through some of your posts in earlier threads, you've predisposed people not to take you seriously.

In this thread I have stated facts. Facts which are backed up by news articles. I have said exactly what I meant, but people brought up points that I had already addressed. I said she gave students alcohol at parties at her house and that these students were her daughter's friends. Also, that her youngest victim was 14 and she teaches 5th and 6th grade.
the response was "5th grade isn't middle school and omg are you saying 6th graders cant be sexually mature?" bitch I had boobs and my period by sixth grade, I f*cking know they can be sexually mature. I was just stating what the articles said. But whatever. I guess I'll just have to repeat myself.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

In this thread I have stated facts. Facts which are backed up by news articles. I have said exactly what I meant, but people brought up points that I had already addressed. I said she gave students alcohol at parties at her house and that these students were her daughter's friends. Also, that her youngest victim was 14 and she teaches 5th and 6th grade.
the response was "5th grade isn't middle school and omg are you saying 6th graders cant be sexually mature?" bitch I had boobs and my period by sixth grade, I f*cking know they can be sexually mature. I was just stating what the articles said. But whatever. I guess I'll just have to repeat myself.

LOL @ TMI and asterisks.

[DrPhil]

Since we're talking about teenagers who are at the awkward stage in their childhood, it is important for people to not make "exceptions" in violation of their state laws. Giving people under the legal drinking age alcohol in a binge drinking culture and having sex and using "he/she is mature for his/her age" is problematic.

I went to middle school (and high school) with some students who had been in middle school (and high school) too darn long. They weren't in my classes because we had tracking (also known as "honors classes"). Some of them looked like they could be 25 year old men and women--smoking in the bathrooms and talking about sex, their children, or their abortions. If you saw them outside of middle school (or high school) you would think they were grown as hell. I know some of them were messing with grown adults outside of the school environment. Some of the adults may have thought these kids were grown. But I really think most of the adults knew these were teenagers once they talked to them and realized they had very little to talk about (for those who had relationships in which they actually talked about real stuff). Even a really mature teenager who seems "old for his/her age" says or does something that makes you say "yeah, you're a teenager." That is because most teenagers' lives are consumed with things that are different than most adults' lives. Even the teenagers who have "hard lives" (like some of the teens at my school) where they have to work to support their families, have children, have diseases, or anything else--are usually dealing with these "hard lives" through a teen lens and not an adult lens.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

bitch I had boobs and my period by sixth grade, I f*cking know they can be sexually mature.

Developing breasts and a menstrual cycle do not make one "sexually mature."

Other than that, who you calling a bitch?! U-N-I-T-YYYYYYYYYYYYYY. Have a seat so this thread can move on to more interesting discourse.