The Confederate Flag

[PincGator Que]

Originally Posted by thetaj

Truth of the matter is that a lot of the rednecks out there are actually really humble, gentle people. .

To their own people, they are.

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I'm just saying that there are non-racists who display the Confederate Flag.

You're an idiot.

What kills me about white people are ignorant ass comments like these... always quick to tell somebody else how to feel about something degrading that has never had any affect on them. There's no way in hell I'm going to sit here and let somebody tell me some shit like I just read here.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PincGator Que

You're an idiot.

What kills me about white people are ignorant ass comments like these... always quick to tell somebody else how to feel about something degrading that has never had any affect on them. There's no way in hell I'm going to sit here and let somebody tell me some shit like I just read here.

Shut the hell up. Seriously.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Ideally, common areas would be free from any type of potentially offensive displays, including Confederate Flags and crosses.

Good.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

First, what is the base meaning of the symbol? For the Confederate Flag, it is secessionism, treason, slavery, etc. For Christian/other religious symbols, the base meanings are intended to be morally positive or perhaps neutral.

Intended. I don't think the base meanings of Christian symbols are only positive and neutral when you look at the origins.

But, it is convenient to focus on "intended" to rationalize support for spirituality and beliefs. Removing the spirituality and belief from the equation and only discussing religion as a social institution, humans cannot create something that is neutral.

Theology and the Bible as literature (or any religious doctrine as literature) can highlight some interesting things about history and human dynamics. Therefore, arguably, humans cannot create something that is completely positive with absolutely no negative components or implications. When you look at the history of religion, Christianity specifically, there were things that had to happen to make Christianity possible. Christians, in particular, discuss this history with pride because it is seen as Jesus/God's work. If you remove the spirituality and belief system from the origins of Christianity, the origins can be seen a lot different.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

On the other hand Christian symbols may take on a negative connotation in certain contexts, but there has always been a conflicting positive connotation in other contexts.

Is there truly a conflicting positive connotation or only conflicting for the Christians who want to stand by Christianity? What makes this so different than what the supporters of the Confederacy and Confederate symbols say about the positive connotations in their contexts?

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

However, the same cross around the neck of a volunteer doctor carries a very different symbolism.

It only carries very different symbolism for those who only identify the cross and Christianity as positive. For those who do not, seeing that cross is like a flashback to the missionaries who were "here to help" but did much more than "help."

And, again, what makes that so different than people who display the Confederate Flag in environments in which the Confederate Flag is not considered threatening? Based on what some people in this thread are saying, it is impossible to personally identify with the Confederate Flag regardless of intent, tone, and context.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Reasonable, empathetic human beings will recognize the difference and use symbolism appropriately in various contexts.

No, Christians will keep our religious privilege as the largest religion in the world and not be careful about where we display our symbols around the world.

Unless there are laws or social control mechanisms that restrict displays around the world. Such restrictions are not the same thing as being reasonable and empathetic by choice.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

LOL, I have NEVER heard Florida called "the real south."

I take it you've never been to the Florida Panhandle.

I'm actually pretty desensitized to that specific Confederate flag. That doesn't mean I like to see it, but I don't get all up in arms when I do. Fortunately, I don't see it that often in my neck of the woods.

[PincGator Que]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Shut the hell up. Seriously.

Make me shut up..."seriously".

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm actually pretty desensitized to that specific Confederate flag. That doesn't mean I like to see it, but I don't get all up in arms when I do.

Ditto.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I take it you've never been to the Florida Panhandle.

I'm actually pretty desensitized to that specific Confederate flag. That doesn't mean I like to see it, but I don't get all up in arms when I do. Fortunately, I don't see it that often in my neck of the woods.

Yeah, I have, but if you ask anyone in the South, they'll all say Florida is in the South, but it's not southern.

[AGD1978]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Shut the hell up. Seriously.

Thanks, Dr. Phil.

I was just going to post about how well PreciousJen's last few sentences summed up what I think is a cause of so many of our problems:

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Dig deeper...why do they feel they can do something so blatantly offensive and not be bothered by it? The answer to this question is the bottom line.

And then PincGator Que weighed in with his hate. Blew me away. I've learned a lot from this thread. Enjoyed the open discussion and the heretofore solid, well-considered exchange of knowledge and opinions.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Yeah, I have, but if you ask anyone in the South, they'll all say Florida is in the South, but it's not southern.

I'd say that's true for anything south of Orlando--but an area of the country called "Lower Alabama" is probably pretty Southern.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PincGator Que

Make me shut up..."seriously".

I did.

This is one of the only threads in the years of GC that has discussed a whole lot of dynamics without becoming a fun "(insert group) war." People have done pretty well with disagreeing without going off on each other even when expressions of opinions became testy. I will let you know when we're resorting back to calling people idiots and stuff. That's also fun. See you then.

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Yeah, I have, but if you ask anyone in the South, they'll all say Florida is in the South, but it's not southern.

Oh parts of it are plenty southern, and I think a lot of the south knows that so idk who you're asking. At least everyone in southern Georgia/Alabama knows it

[amIblue?]

I love where this thread has wandered.

I have spent 100% of my life in Tennessee and Georgia, I have heard people from both states speak of Florida as "not the south." I have also heard people in Georgia tell me Tennessee is "not the real south." I've heard people in south Georgia call Atlanta the north because of all the transplants. I've seen people on GC lump Texas in with the south when everyone should realize that Texas is its own impressive self.

As a professional, I routinely do business in and frequently visit these states: Tennessee, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. I've found that we all have more in common than not as southerners, you know, except for all those transplants in Atlanta.

[steveg]

Sorry I had to read back through many post to answer this!

Who ever asked if I was drunk, NO.

But some of the comments by either North or South is inane!

We now are a Country of many colors and relegions and have been for many years, right? Or am I wrong?

Civil War is over, right? Maybe no, maybe not?

History is history and cannot be change no matter how some want to change it!

Within the USA were virtualy are a square county. N,S,E,W, and there are a whole lot of us in the big square.

But, from what I have seen, there is less racism in white Glos than b Glos or am I error?

Whast upsets me are the haters.

Who was it who asked do Ye protest to much?

[Psi U MC Vito]

^^ what no smileys?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by thetaj

Oh parts of it are plenty southern, and I think a lot of the south knows that so idk who you're asking. At least everyone in southern Georgia/Alabama knows it

Probably the fact that you have to put the caveat that parts of the state are southern is why people don't consider it southern. It's a pretty wide spread thought outside Florida, apparently. The discussion even made it on a nationally televised series called, "You Don't Know Dixie" on the History Channel http://www.history.com/shows/you-don.../episode-guide that discussed everything from which states are southern to what a "southern" accent is. If you haven't heard this before, you haven't been far out of Florida.