UCLA Recruitment begins Wednesday!

[BlueOwl]

To clarify further...in a way, I think that chapters probably cut the transfer PNM's a little slack. Chapters know that they have a upperclassmen quota to fill, so they sort of have the mind set of "ok, she'll be fine, I guess we can take her, etc." But if a chapter is adamant that they do not want someone, they will not be forced to take her. But, has my daughter's chapter taken some older girls that would never have made it in if not for the fact that they helped fill the upperclassmen quota? Yup, you bet.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by BlueOwl

But, yes, it's absolutely true that chapters will have to extend bids to non-freshman girls who are less desirable to them in order to fill their non-freshman quota. Believe me, if it was not a requirement, they would not do it! No, the actives do not like having to do this one bit.

That shouldn't be. I'm guessing that most of the women do fulfill the requirements on paper, but a chapter should never be forced to take a woman for any reason - be it her GPA, her race, her class standing, whatever.

As DBB said, if they don't want to use those upperclass quota spots, that should be their prerogative - and with that prerogative comes the possibility of having fewer members. It seems that the "forcing" has already been shown to be a negative thing, as you mentioned the large amount of juniors who drop out.

[ellebud]

I think that one thing that should be kept in mind about the UCs is the HUGE number of CC transfers. As I remember, back in the pre history times, the sororities didn't pay attention to the class standing of the pnms. If we wanted someone we took her. There was always a new crop of transfers to fill their spaces.

Yes, I know...I started at USC and graduated UCLA. The systems were very different

[CaliTransfer]

Originally Posted by BlueOwl

CaliTransfer, what has your experience been?

I can only speak from my experience from my own chapter, but I never felt like I was treated differently as an junior transfer new member from a freshman new member. Based on the transfers I know from my rush group, about a third now are die-hard for their sorority and incredibly active and have made great new members. A third have dropped out due to circumstances that happen to anyone regardless of class standing (finances, too busy with their workload/other extracurriculars, family problems, realize sorority life isn't for them). The last third are the ones who deal with the feelings of "not having a connection". I think this occurs because it's hard to find as much in common with freshman who are very "OMGZYAY COLLEGE!" when a lot of these girls have been independent for the past 2-3 years. For transfers it takes a lot more effort on their part to take initiative and get to know upperclassmen girls outside of the pledge class and not just wait for the sisterhood to happen.

Personally I felt this especially after my best friend (also a transfer) in my pledge class was planning on dropping. I didn't live on campus and couldn't bond as much with those in my pledge class who did. But it has gotten a lot better since I've taken on a little and have gotten more involved in the house (especially now during recruitment!).

Also, I just calculated the numbers right now and upperclassmen (sophomores and up) comprise 33% of those signed up for recruitment with almost 20% being junior transfers.

[BlueOwl]

ElleBud and CaliTransfer are both correct. UCLA takes tons of transfer students, that's just the nature of the UC system. So, CaliTransfer is spot on that probably one third of the PNM's this year will be third year transfers or second years who are mostly girls who matriculated at UCLA as freshman but did not go thru recruitment then for whatever reason...or, they did rush but didn't "like" the sorority they got a bid from. Dum de dum dum...and guess what? Those very same young ladies will likely fair MUCH better the second time around because they are not in that competitive numbers pool with the freshman.

To reiterate, the sororities are not "forced" to take anyone. But they are required to fulfill a non-freshman quota. A sorority can't just say "we don't want to take any junior transfers". So, they do try to get the girls that they want from that pool of PNM's. Would they much rather fill those slots with freshman? For the most part, YES. Could most of the UCLA chapters fill all quota numbers with just freshman? YES! But, that is not how it works at UCLA. So, they just deal with it.

[BlueOwl]

And by the way CaliTransfer, I want to wish you and your chapter a wonderful recruitment! With 900 girls registered for recruitment at a school with 12 chapters, there is certainly a place for every girl and plenty of girls to satisfy the wants and needs of every sorority!

Let us know how the week is progressing and what the mood on the row is!

Good Luck!

[bruinaphi]

Originally Posted by BlueOwl

The upperclassmen quota in NOT optional. Each sorority is required to take quite a few, usually about one third of the new member class will be non- freshman women! This policy began about five years ago. As I said before, the sororities aren't exactly in love with this requirement.

As the RFM Specialist and NPC Area Advisor for UCLA, I can tell you that this is not true. It is up to each national organization to determine whether or not their chapter wants to fulfill their upperclass Quota, just like every other campus that has an upperclass Quota. It is my understanding that each of the national organizations on campus have decided to participate in the upperclass Quota. The upperclass Quota is determined using the same Quota Range system that is used for freshmen women. There are no mandatory carry figures.

The chapters themselves voted to have an upperclass Quota, as the demographics of UCLA PNMs had shifted and we were losing great women from recruitment because chapters wanted to affiliate freshmen to maintain their class balance.

[BlueOwl]

Thank you so much for the clarification! That makes sense.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by bruinaphi

As the RFM Specialist and NPC Area Advisor for UCLA, I can tell you that this is not true. It is up to each national organization to determine whether or not their chapter wants to fulfill their upperclass Quota, just like every other campus that has an upperclass Quota.

Just a clarification, because I find sorority rush so interesting compared to fraternity rush, then would that mean that the national organization is dictating to the individual chapter what to do? If it's up to the national organization to determine whether the individual chapter fulfills the separate quota, then I think the spirit of BlueOwl's post could still ring true in that chapters could feel like they are forced to take women they may not necessarily want. If it's the individual chapters making the decision then BlueOwl's point is moot though.

Also, you say the chapters voted for it, but would that mean that only a simple majority would have had to vote yes? I could see many chapters loving this policy, but I could also see how certain chapters that are used to being really selective may be frustrated that they "have" to give bids to a group of girls who may not have made the cut as freshmen. Once again, that only applies if the individual chapters are being told to take the full separate quota, whether from their nationals, their adviser or Panhellenic.

[bruinaphi]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Just a clarification, because I find sorority rush so interesting compared to fraternity rush, then would that mean that the national organization is dictating to the individual chapter what to do?

I cannot profess to know the inner workings of the various NPC groups. My guess is that most groups get their chapters to understand that it is advantageous to them to participate fully in the upperclass Quota, since these women make up 33% of the women going through recruitment. BlueOwl's point was that the college panhellenic was forcing groups to take women. This is incorrect.

But they are required to fulfill a non-freshman quota. A sorority can't just say "we don't want to take any junior transfers". So, they do try to get the girls that they want from that pool of PNM's. Would they much rather fill those slots with freshman? For the most part, YES. Could most of the UCLA chapters fill all quota numbers with just freshman?

Actually, a sorority can say "we don't want to take any junior transfers." No group is forced to affiliate anyone by the college panhellenic. And the reason why we have an upperclass quota is that most of the UCLA chapters cannot fill their Quota numbers with freshmen, that is why the numbers are separated out.

With respect to retention of juniors, I am not sure some of the "data" on here is accurate, but I also don't get class year breakdowns of chapter sizes. There was higher than usual attrition last year, but not the year before.

[ChioLu]

I'm Panhellenic Advisor at a chapter at UCLA (okay, kinda obvious which one from my GreekChat name) plus get asked to assist with Recruitment each year. In order to help with Recruitment, you have to know the rules (or you're not a lot of help), so I'm happy to provide info specific to UCLA.

I'd have to check the overall drop rate of non-freshman NMs (before initiation), but the All-Row deactivation rate (after initiation) is a much higher % for women who join their 1st year than those that join as Upperclassmen on the Row. If wonderful women are deactivating, a 2nd question (for a new thread) would be: After receiving an invitation to join and a Member/NM deactivates, where does the responsibility lie? Enhancing Retention Skills within the sisterhood, or was being in a sorority just not a fit for that Member/NM or didn't meet her expectations? Only 13% of UCLA students are in Greek organizations. That # includes these Greek letter organizations: multi-ethnic, traditionally ethnic, multicultural, religious and field-of-study based fraternities and sororities. The average Greek percentage at most universities is 15% of undergrad enrollment. One interesting note is that UCLA, & several other west coast schools, have more 1st generation college students and many more 1st generation Greek members (if his/her parents also went to college).

Back to topic -- yes, the UCLA non-Freshman quota is 1/3 of total PMNs (that go to Pref), so the Freshmen quota is double (unless you want more upperclass NMs.) No house is required to take any upperclassmen, but you'd have a smaller chapter . Two years ago, 1 of the largest sororities didn't take quota because they felt like their NM class were THE select women who met their ideals. If PNMs don't meet the requirements of a chapter, no matter what class year, no house is forced to give out as many invitations as quota allows. Since the competition for non-freshmen is intense, chapters need to be either be more competitive during Recruitment or give invitations to only the upperclassmen your organization deems deserving and participate in Winter & Spring Recruitment for additional worthy members (... or if you go to a college where there is only 1 sorority, then you're the only game in town).

As for voting, there are 2 blocks of voting on PNMs: Freshmen voting and Upperclassmen voting. To be clear, voting members do not decide between a 1st year vs. a 3rd year, but vote on the Freshmen women, then vote on the Soph/Jr/Sr women separately. So, they are inviting back THEIR top number of Freshmen and THEIR top amount of Upperclassmen they're allowed to ask back each day (& the PNMs who accept those invitations are the ones who come back, then there's a "float" list since 100% return rate isn't achievable for any sorority). UCLA's Greek system is an opportunity for all years to go Greek -- not exclusive to just 1st years -- otherwise, fantastic women would be disadvantaged at all sororities, merely for being a Sophomore/Junior/Senior. There's a word for that: Ageism (def. -a tendency to regard older persons as debilitated, unworthy of attention, or unsuitable for employment).

When I became involved at my chapter at UCLA seven years ago (& moving from The South where Rush is intense & was a Chapter Advisor, City Alumnae Officer & Regional Officer there), the UCLA quota was low-to-mid 20s, just over 300 participating and only about 6 sororities made quota out of 11. Panhellenic total was around 100 and there was a huge disparity in the numbers of the big chapters and small chapters -- a definite Recruitment Advantage or Disadvantage, depending on what house you were in. Then the university got new Panhell. & IFC Directors and quota started increasing. The Greek Life Directors have done (& continue to do) an AWESOME job of building the Greek system. (It's not a job for them, it's a lifestyle. LOL) Last year, 715 women going thru, quota was 43, and most chapters took more (details below). The increase in Recruitment numbers is how Alpha Chi Omega was able to recolonize (they still had a chapter house), and the 2 other chapters that still own houses on the row and want to recolonize, get excited when they see this success. In the early 1980s, UCLA had 23 sororities with physical sorority houses on The Row extending south of The W Hotel -- now it's 12, with the addition of AChiO 2 years ago.

With nearly 900 women registered, it looks like quota will be even bigger. In addition to Recruitment Quota, if a chapter is not yet to Panhellenic total, those groups can take the amount of NMs to get to Row total ON Bid Day, who have gone thru all of Rush. (No crushing disappointment on bid day, then the stress of going thru the COB process.) I think (hope) this is becoming the standard at more schools (though I know a few large universities where it is not.) So, PNM classes can have 1 more, 2 more, 10 more (etc) than Recruitment Quota. Last year, I believe about 8 or 9 sororities took over total due to this and the International student NMs.

International students who are studying abroad and only at UCLA for 1 year have a chance to be a part of Greek Life as well. International students are not counted in Recruitment Total, and you can have even more new sisters from London, Paris, Brazil or Hong Kong (for example). These are women with top GPAs and non-Freshmen.

After Spring 2011 Recruitment, I believe 10 out of 12 sororities were either at total, above total or were just slightly under Chapter Total (10 members or less under overall total). Panhellenic actually lowered total before Spring Recruitment to even the playing field and 8 sororities participated. The amount of women going thru was the highest in Spring than in several past years. If anyone has actually #s of how many participated and how many accepted invitations, please add those stats. As you can see, the Greek Life Directors have worked hard to grow the Greek system every year and help make ALL the chapters stronger.

If the non-Freshmen women who become members are "extras" or women who wouldn't get in normally or less than desirable -- don't give out invitations and participate in COB/Continuous Open Bidding. (It's difficult for transfers to get accepted at UCLA without at least a 3.0GPA. It does happen, but definitely not the norm.) UCLA has tough entrance standards (#25 on U.S. News & World Report's list of top universities, just released last week), and it is has a large transfer student population. Since it's tough for transfers to get in to UCLA, the university actually assists in the Recruitment process -- PNMs must have high grades, volunteering, leadership and involvement in organizations (in high school &/or from their transfer college) just to gain admission.

The Recruitment attrition rate (decrease in participating women from start to finish) at UCLA is less than 15%! This school is looked at by other university Greek Life offices with envy. If the quality of women a chapter is seeking is not going through Recruitment & only 13% of undergrads are Greek, there's 87% who didn't go through the process. That's a lot of potential if you want to look outside the box.

Didn't initially intend to write this much, but wanted to give more information on UCLA Recruitment and Greek Life. Okay now -- can I get an "8 clap"???!!!

[CaliTransfer]

That was an incredibly informative post! I have some friends who joined the chapter you advise here at UCLA as upperclassmen actually.

I had no idea we had 23 sororities at one point! It's unfortunate that they are no longer around. I know that we use the old Phi Mu house as home base for the PNMs and Rho Gammas during recruitment.

It's getting late here on Hilgard Avenue but we're all excited for the start of Round 1 parties tomorrow!

[KSUViolet06]

bruinaphi: "float" list = flex list?

[BlueOwl]

To ChioLu!!! Thank you for so much great information!! I confess that I do get my information in bits and pieces from my daughter, and her view may be a tad skewed at times! She did call me this evening and said that the first round parties will be the biggest ever due to the huge recruitment enrollment this year. I think that is the sign of a great recruitment week to come for all of the sororities!
ChioLu...the Chi Omega chapter at UCLA is just amazing! You must be so proud of those girls! Good luck to them this week!!

My daughter's sorority is prepared, polished and ready to go! So excited for them all!!

And finally, here's your 8-Clap (minus the claps!):

U
C
LLLLLLLLL
A

UCLA FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!

[melindawarren]

I'm a Trojan, but I still have to wish you all an awesome recruitment. You may be our cross-town rivals, but you're also our neighbors and some of my very close HS friends are about to start recruitment there. Best of luck!