"Taking someone else's spot"

[Titchou]

Yes, it is. And I'll tell you why I think that.

The chapters issue the invitations. Just like you do to any function you have at your house. And based on their availability of schedule" and "level of interest," your guests accept or decline. So someone who isn't so interested still gets an invite because YOU want them there. However, they may not have room in their schedule for an event at that time so they decline. They still think you're on OK person so you still make their friend/co worker list but maybe not well enough to rearrange their schedule to accomodate an event at your house. No one with any manners would tell you that they just don't want to come to your house. And neither would the PNMs whom we consider to be young ladies. And if they do, then we know what happens then!

That's always the way I've looked at it. I may not make the invite list because I'm friend number 215 and the church only holds 200 for a wedding. That's fine. I may decline the wedding invitation because frankly your events are never any fun or I can't afford a gift. But that's OK too. None of this means we can't be friends...

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Yes, it is. And I'll tell you why I think that.

The chapters issue the invitations. Just like you do to any function you have at your house. And based on their availability of schedule" and "level of interest," your guests accept or decline. So someone who isn't so interested still gets an invite because YOU want them there. However, they may not have room in their schedule for an event at that time so they decline. They still think you're on OK person so you still make their friend/co worker list but maybe not well enough to rearrange their schedule to accomodate an event at your house. No one with any manners would tell you that they just don't want to come to your house. And neither would the PNMs whom we consider to be young ladies. And if they do, then we know what happens then!

That's always the way I've looked at it. I may not make the invite list because I'm friend number 215 and the church only holds 200 for a wedding. That's fine. I may decline the wedding invitation because frankly your events are never any fun or I can't afford a gift. But that's OK too. None of this means we can't be friends...

I'm trying to understand. As some have kindly* noted before, my rush was not what many go through now.

A closer analogy to what I'm seeing is everyone on my street having an open house on the same day, and inviting everyone in the neighborhood. There are some who don't want to come to my house, or to my neighbor's house, but want to visit everyone else. Why should that person have to visit the homes s/he doesn't want to? Seems to me that rush is the same way. Just because there are 8 time slots for parties and someone gets invitations to 8 parties, why must she go to all 8? Wouldn't "mutual" selection dictate that both sides get to "cut"?

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I'm trying to understand. As some have kindly* noted before, my rush was not what many go through now.

A closer analogy to what I'm seeing is everyone on my street having an open house on the same day, and inviting everyone in the neighborhood. There are some who don't want to come to my house, or to my neighbor's house, but want to visit everyone else. Why should that person have to visit the homes s/he doesn't want to? Seems to me that rush is the same way. Just because there are 8 time slots for parties and someone gets invitations to 8 parties, why must she go to all 8? Wouldn't "mutual" selection dictate that both sides get to "cut"?

Returning to chapters =/= joining chapters

Returning to a chapter in which the PNM is not interested in doesn't bind her to anything. Listing a chapter she doesn't want on her MRABA will bind her to that chapter if she is matched with it.

I understand it doesn't feel very mututal to PNMs who are "forced" to return to chapters they may not want, but at the end of the day, no one is forcing them to join. College Panhellenics simply want PNMs to have every opportunity to see their realistic options.

[Splash]

My $0.02...

At my school, if you skip a party, you are released from recruitment.

I understand that it doesn't seem like mutual selection if a PNM can't cut, but the chances of her being happy if she gives her lower ranked groups another shot with an open mind are significant, I think.

I think if she is going to for sure decline the bid, she should suicide, because it is taking a spot from another girl.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I'm trying to understand. As some have kindly* noted before, my rush was not what many go through now.

A closer analogy to what I'm seeing is everyone on my street having an open house on the same day, and inviting everyone in the neighborhood. There are some who don't want to come to my house, or to my neighbor's house, but want to visit everyone else. Why should that person have to visit the homes s/he doesn't want to? Seems to me that rush is the same way. Just because there are 8 time slots for parties and someone gets invitations to 8 parties, why must she go to all 8? Wouldn't "mutual" selection dictate that both sides get to "cut"?

We disagree on so much, but dammit I agree with this.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

We disagree on so much, but dammit I agree with this.

Yeah but if you find out that the house you blew off because it didn't look fun or like a place you would hang out just happens to be where Lenny Kravitz's cousin lives and they were having a family reunion, you're really gonna feel like a jackass.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yeah but if you find out that the house you blew off because it didn't look fun or like a place you would hang out just happens to be where Lenny Kravitz's cousin lives and they were having a family reunion, you're really gonna feel like a jackass.

In the words of Victor Newman "ain't gonna happen!"

lol

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I'm trying to understand. As some have kindly* noted before, my rush was not what many go through now.

A closer analogy to what I'm seeing is everyone on my street having an open house on the same day, and inviting everyone in the neighborhood. There are some who don't want to come to my house, or to my neighbor's house, but want to visit everyone else. Why should that person have to visit the homes s/he doesn't want to? Seems to me that rush is the same way. Just because there are 8 time slots for parties and someone gets invitations to 8 parties, why must she go to all 8? Wouldn't "mutual" selection dictate that both sides get to "cut"?

Yes, and they both can. It's just that by going when you have the opportunity but not so much the desire that you open yourself to things you may not have seen before. "rush crush" applies on both sides of the aisle.

And they should visit all the houses in your neighborhood because it's the polite thing to do. Just as you all will be neighbors and therefore should have some knowledge of and level of friendship with each, PNMs will be members not only of the chapter they pledge but the overall PH community and getting to know them and what's meaningful to them is advantageous to all.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Yes, and they both can. It's just that by going when you have the opportunity but not so much the desire that you open yourself to things you may not have seen before. "rush crush" applies on both sides of the aisle.

But no, they can't. The chapters can cut the rushee, but not the other way around. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I understand from rules that have been posted or linked here, if she fails to attend a party, she's cut from rush completely. That's coercion, the way I see it.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by DGTess

But no, they can't. The chapters can cut the rushee, but not the other way around. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I understand from rules that have been posted or linked here, if she fails to attend a party, she's cut from rush completely. That's coercion, the way I see it.

Oh noes, don't tread on me!

If it's going to kill you to visit and be polite at a chapter that you don't want to go to in order to stay in the recruitment process, you've got a lot to learn about getting what you want in life.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by DGTess

But no, they can't. The chapters can cut the rushee, but not the other way around. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I understand from rules that have been posted or linked here, if she fails to attend a party, she's cut from rush completely. That's coercion, the way I see it.

But she's not required to list it on her pref card in the end. They're coercing a girl to give something another look, not forcing her to join.

At a big/competitive recruitment like the one I went through, I think most PNMs would rather be able to say they have a full party schedule if possible, even if it means they have to attend parties at chapters they don't particularly like. It always feels nice to have the invites and feel desired.

[VandalSquirrel]

I've got some in-between feelings here. I'd always rather go where I am truly wanted, so I'd rather have the chapters who actually want me invite me back and have a better idea of my realistic chances. So I really like a situation where women are given invitations and if they have more than they are supposed to they can choose and be given the option of using "regret" if they liked a chapter but had more invites than party slots. By not using regret then a chapter can see a woman is not interested and move on.

I also am torn about maximizing options to be available for QA or snap, as more often than not the woman has two chapters, one she wants to join and the other she doesn't. If a woman absolutely doesn't want to join the other chapter, that should be made clear for the sake of those chapters she doesn't want because it sucks to have women not show up on bid day, boo hooing, or just being negative. She'd still be eligible for COB but guess which chapters will likely be doing that, if at all.

I think the only time a "spot" is taken from a woman is during a bed rush, as mutual selection will keep women and chapters together through RFM, QA, and snap bidding.

Of course I truly believe in rush not before school starts, freshman not living in, and having events the first semester that are panhellenic and though not ideal for all campuses it could allow women to give chapters a chance and if they still only want XYZ and don't get it, they can't say the system cheated them as we could educate PNMs about the process for a whole semester/quarter.

[TriDeltaSallie]

How many stories do we read on here about women who didn't like ABC the first day and loved them the second day or even the third day? It happens ALL THE TIME.

Yes, the sorority women hold the whip hand. The PNMs want to think they have more control than they do, but they don't. Such is the nature of the beast. If you want a job, you jump through hoops. If you want to attend a certain school, you jump through hoops. If you want to join a sorority, you jump through hoops.

Welcome to life.

I've rushed women who did not want to be at my chapter and it stinks. No one likes dealing with a rude woman. But I still think the system works the best for everyone in the long run. I wish we had had RFM in place when I was in college. It might have made a huge difference on a campus where four chapters closed in a relatively short period of time.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by DGTess

But no, they can't. The chapters can cut the rushee, but not the other way around. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I understand from rules that have been posted or linked here, if she fails to attend a party, she's cut from rush completely. That's coercion, the way I see it.

Then you misunderstand. If she doesn't attend all she can she is not cut from recruitment. What happens is that she has not "maximized her options." Therefore, if she does not match to whoever she puts on her bid card she cannot be added as a quota addition. She may luck out and get her choice but she has no options if she doesn't. So it only applies at the end of recruitment insofaras how many options she has.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Then you misunderstand. If she doesn't attend all she can she is not cut from recruitment. What happens is that she has not "maximized her options." Therefore, if she does not match to whoever she puts on her bid card she cannot be added as a quota addition. She may luck out and get her choice but she has no options if she doesn't. So it only applies at the end of recruitment insofaras how many options she has.

I haven't heard of a school where a PNM is allowed to skip parties (unless excused) during formal recruitment without being released entirely.