"Taking someone else's spot"

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by ElieM

I thought with RFM, if you made it to pref, you weren't taking anyone's spot - that there were spots for all

There are "spots" i.e. bids, for all girls who go to pref... but those spots may or may not be with the chapters that they want to join or will accept a bid from.

[Titchou]

There are...it's just an excuse to keep from admiting the truth...

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Titchou

I haven't heard of one that does. If they do release her from recruitment for failure to accept an invitation they should be reported to their NPC Area Adviser.

So obviously, she can decline to attend if they have to say what to do with her at bid matching.

Talking invites here, not bids/MRAA etc.

From the Green book: (Page 83, 15th addition)

What Every Potential New Member Needs to Know About Recruitment
 The College Panhellenic has information available that tells you what to expect during
recruitment (schedule, what to wear, etc.).
 It is permissible to ask questions when you do not understand.
 Some events will have more potential new members in attendance than others, and this is
no reflection on a chapter.
 You must attend all events for which you receive an invitation.
 Failure to attend an event may jeopardize your ability to receive invitations.
 Being a legacy of a group does not ensure membership in that group.
 Accurate financial information regarding membership is given by Panhellenic in a cost range
unless the individual groups provide specific chapter information to you.
 Good scholarship is important to all groups within Panhellenic.
 All NPC groups have policies against hazing.
 No chapter member may promise or imply the promise of a bid.
 You are expected to act politely and respectfully when attending an event.
 You should expect to be treated politely and with respect.
 Every woman attending a preference event must appear on that fraternity’s bid list, but this
does not ensure an invitation to join that particular fraternity, because recruitment is a
mutual selection process.
 You must be certain you understand the MRABA that you will be expected to sign
immediately after attending the last preference event.

Doesn't seem to be any reason to report anyone. Where are you getting that?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Talking invites here, not bids/MRAA etc.

From the Green book: (Page 83, 15th addition)

Doesn't seem to be any reason to report anyone. Where are you getting that?

It says may. It doesn't say that you will be released from recruitment nor that it is required that you be released. Again, if they are doing that, the AA should know about it. What's wrong with doing that?

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Titchou

It says may. It doesn't say that you will be released from recruitment nor that it is required that you be released. Again, if they are doing that, the AA should know about it. What's wrong with doing that?

Why would you report something which isn't against the rules?

The reason to require pnms to attend all parties is to do all you can to enable them to make an informed decision. Chapters cannot cut pnms without meeting them at first round parties - they need to make an informed decision. Same with the pnms - and we all know of pnms who changed their minds about a chapter over the course of recruitment.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Nobody has brought up the other side of the equation, though.

Under RFM, chapters are also STRONGLY ENCOURAGED to issue the number of invites allowed them under RFM. If chapters under-invite, I believe the GL office is supposed to notify the national organization.

Now, I don't think chapters are required to have a bid list of a certain length, but in the early stages, chapters may be taking a second look at PNM's who didn't excite them at first if their dream girls don't choose to return.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Nobody has brought up the other side of the equation, though.

Under RFM, chapters are also STRONGLY ENCOURAGED to issue the number of invites allowed them under RFM. If chapters under-invite, I believe the GL office is supposed to notify the national organization.

I was going to bring it up. As much as it may suck for the PNM to have to attend a party that she doesn't like, it sucks a HELL of a lot more for the sorority to be buffaloed into asking back women whose presence at a party could turn off the PNMs they DO want. Especially when the Rho Chis (and people on here) keep saying things like "look around at the other rushees! Those will be your pledge sisters!" I'm glad no one ever said that to me or I might have made really horrendous decisions.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was going to bring it up. As much as it may suck for the PNM to have to attend a party that she doesn't like, it sucks a HELL of a lot more for the sorority to be buffaloed into asking back women whose presence at a party could turn off the PNMs they DO want. Especially when the Rho Chis (and people on here) keep saying things like "look around at the other rushees! Those will be your pledge sisters!" I'm glad no one ever said that to me or I might have made really horrendous decisions.

Oh, sure, but I've also seen collegians decide that Patti PNM is their OMGFAVORITE in round 1, and then when Patti doesn't show up in round 2, they find someone else to rush crush on. There is nothing wrong with Patti, she just didn't shine as much in the first 15-minute meeting.

I think it's pretty analogous to PNM's choosing chapters. If there's a struggling chapter that's like half the size, or unhoused when all the others have gorgeous mansions, or something like that, it's one thing to sorta mentally write it off. It's another thing when virtually all the chapters are close to the same size, over 100 women each, and the main differences between them are the tent talk.

(Of course, my experiences are with a much larger recruitment than yours...I'm talking about first impressions when there are tons of PNM's that nobody really knows)

[groovypq]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was going to bring it up. As much as it may suck for the PNM to have to attend a party that she doesn't like, it sucks a HELL of a lot more for the sorority to be buffaloed into asking back women whose presence at a party could turn off the PNMs they DO want. Especially when the Rho Chis (and people on here) keep saying things like "look around at the other rushees! Those will be your pledge sisters!" I'm glad no one ever said that to me or I might have made really horrendous decisions.

THIS. While I appreciate that RFM can benefit my chapter, we've also been told by our former GL advisor (and allegedly the RFM specialist as well), "You can invite back X number of women and you'd better invite X, not X minus 1." And it doesn't help a chapter shed the "they take anyone" image when that PNM no one else wanted ends up there.

[Titchou]

I give..whatever...let them just release whomever they want for whatever reason they want. No need to question anything.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Titchou

I give..whatever...let them just release whomever they want for whatever reason they want. No need to question anything.

It's perfectly 'legal' to release them. This isn't a "no need to question anything" situation. The process is overseen throughout. Because it says "may" it means that a campus "may" enact those rules. A later section of the green book provides sample rules for recruitment including:
For Chapters

FSR, PSR, MSR: A woman shall attend orientation and membership recruitment events to which she has accepted invitations. In case of illness or an emergency, the woman shall notify the Panhellenic and/or her recruitment counselor. The Panhellenic and/or the recruitment counselor will then notify the chapters involved.

For PNMs

FSR, PSR: A woman shall attend orientation and all parties to which she has accepted
invitations. In the event of illness or emergency, she should notify Panhellenic and/or her
recruitment counselor if she cannot attend.

Although this doesn't list the consequences, the previous bit did. I'm confused why you're assuming it's wrong and should be reported just in case, when it's really not uncommon on campuses in general AFAIK, and is permitted- although not necessarily required - by the manual.

[Old_Row]

Mutual selection truly exists for only the top PNMs and top recruiting chapters.

[BraveMaroon]

Originally Posted by Old_Row

Mutual selection truly exists for only the top PNMs and top recruiting chapters.

Awww, someone's been reading http://totalfratmove.com.

Orginal.

[DubaiSis]

This all goes back to trying to get everyone involved to use as much of the approximately 120 minutes they have to get to know each other. The sororities need to make cuts but ideally will only cut the minimum number and the rushees should attend the maximum number because 120 minutes tops is a ridiculously short amount of money to make these decisions that cost thousands of dollars and a lifetime of friendships.

That being said, if a girl doesn't want to attend certain parties I guess she shouldn't be forced. I think she should, but it's her decision. So many girls do not go through the process with an open mind that giving that house another chance is really going to be a waste of everyone's time. I also would like to see some sort of "with regrets" system where a girl cuts a chapter or the chapter cuts a girl and later on down the process either side has an opening of sorts and can get back onto their list. So many girls have full schedules the 2nd day and get slammed on day 3. There may have been houses that wanted to see her again who she suddenly has space for. Is this too complicated for the computer to work out or for the people involved to understand?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

That being said, if a girl doesn't want to attend certain parties I guess she shouldn't be forced. I think she should, but it's her decision. So many girls do not go through the process with an open mind that giving that house another chance is really going to be a waste of everyone's time. I also would like to see some sort of "with regrets" system where a girl cuts a chapter or the chapter cuts a girl and later on down the process either side has an opening of sorts and can get back onto their list. So many girls have full schedules the 2nd day and get slammed on day 3. There may have been houses that wanted to see her again who she suddenly has space for. Is this too complicated for the computer to work out or for the people involved to understand?

It is really tough for a house to not have enough women at parties, and it can become obvious to other PNM's. I really don't think it is so horrible to spend half an hour at a chapter you are not interested in and be reasonably polite. Oh, and chapters talk to one another, believe me.

There is nothing complicated about programming the software to allow "re-invites" for women who do not have the maximum number of parties. The issue, however, is that chapters don't want to look desperate by inviting women to round 3 who weren't at round 2. I have seen it happen, on occasion, when there was a legitimate mistake*, but if all chapters are following RFM, it shouldn't be that necessary.

*NOT A COMPUTER ERROR. A HUMAN BEING mixing up two PNM's with the same name.