I'm Too Pretty To Do Homework!!!!!!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I posted this earlier in the thread:

Censorship was the wrong word. I just shift in my seat with the WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN mentality when it's so easy to not buy the item. I think Ed Hardy shirts look like shit, but I won't petition to have them removed from a store.

We influence how our society is at all times. This isn't about keeping porn away from children or keeping them from learning about sex education in schools or protecting them from things that they don't need protecting from. This is kind of exactly what young girls need protection from. This message tells them pretty > smart.

All that said, JCPenny is the one who made it available and the one who took it off their shelves so blame them not the people who complained about it. Because the idea that we should just shut up and not complain is another message we should protect young girls from. There's no reason to support a store selling a message we don't like. Just like when Christians protest Disney (or whatever) for Gay Days. They're well within their rights to do it. And the pro-equality crowd supports Disney (or whatever) for it. So Disney, goes with a) what it thinks is right or more likely b) what will be the most financially beneficial idea.

JCP did the same thing, and apparently no one was supporting the idea that this shirt was a GOOD message for girls. So guess which way they decided.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

There's no reason to support a store selling a message we don't like. Just like when Christians protest Disney (or whatever) for Gay Days. They're well within their rights to do it. And the pro-equality crowd supports Disney (or whatever) for it. So Disney, goes with a) what it thinks is right or more likely b) what will be the most financially beneficial idea.

JCP did the same thing, and apparently no one was supporting the idea that this shirt was a GOOD message for girls. So guess which way they decided.

As an aside - because this drives me crazy - Disney does not sponsor Gay Days - various and sundry QUILTBAG groups organize it and go to the parks, just like any other group. It drives me crazy when Christians don't do their homework and boycott Disney because an outside group goes to the parks. I guess some might argue that Disney should somehow use gaydar to refuse admittance to those there for Gay Days, but those people are what I like to call stupid.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

As an aside - because this drives me crazy - Disney does not sponsor Gay Days - various and sundry QUILTBAG groups organize it and go to the parks, just like any other group. It drives me crazy when Christians don't do their homework and boycott Disney because an outside group goes to the parks. I guess some might argue that Disney should somehow use gaydar to refuse admittance to those there for Gay Days, but those people are what I like to call stupid.

I was just looking at the Gay Days site - apparently they have a parade down the Main Street of Disney? I don't think you could say that's "like any other group."

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was just looking at the Gay Days site - apparently they have a parade down the Main Street of Disney? I don't think you could say that's "like any other group."

And what site is that? I'm guessing - non-Disney. Look on the DISNEY site - nothing. Disney EVERY DAY has a Main Street Parade which features guests - IT IS NOT A SPECIAL DISNEY SPONSORED PARADE FOR GAY DAYS. Disney decided early on to simply treat all their guests the same - so if a large group comes for Gay Days, they will be given the opportunity to join ALL the other guests.

So, yes. "Like any other group". If your sorority decides to descend en mass to the Magic Kingdom in matching shirts, you too can have your "own" parade.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was just looking at the Gay Days site - apparently they have a parade down the Main Street of Disney? I don't think you could say that's "like any other group."

No, that's (one of) Disney's daily parade and there are so many people in the GayDays Red shirts that it's a sea of red.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

We influence how our society is at all times. This isn't about keeping porn away from children or keeping them from learning about sex education in schools or protecting them from things that they don't need protecting from. This is kind of exactly what young girls need protection from. This message tells them pretty > smart.

At the risk of dragging this on...

That's really not JCP's job. This is a time where I feel that a parent should step in and say "Wow, Susie, this shirt is stupid. I hope you don't ever feel that pretty > smart." rather than "I WANT A MANAGER. WHO SELLS THINGS LIKE THIS??"

It was obviously meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Should we petition malls to remove Spencers since teen girls have to walk past the store to get to their destinations?

All that said, JCPenny is the one who made it available and the one who took it off their shelves so blame them not the people who complained about it.

They took it down because of the complaints. Multiple people (buyers, web designers, managers, etc) saw the item without incident but it didn't become an issue until that petition was started.

Because the idea that we should just shut up and not complain is another message we should protect young girls from. There's no reason to support a store selling a message we don't like. Just like when Christians protest Disney (or whatever) for Gay Days. They're well within their rights to do it. And the pro-equality crowd supports Disney (or whatever) for it. So Disney, goes with a) what it thinks is right or more likely b) what will be the most financially beneficial idea.

@ the bold - That's my point. If I don't support that shirt, I won't buy it. If I don't support that store, I don't shop there. knight_shadow is not representative of the masses, so just because it doesn't suit ME doesn't mean that there isn't someone else out there who likes it.

JCP did the same thing, and apparently no one was supporting the idea that this shirt was a GOOD message for girls. So guess which way they decided.

I understand why JCP did what they did. My issue, again, was with the petitioners.

[SigKapSweetie]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Should we petition malls to remove Spencers since teen girls have to walk past the store to get to their destinations?

That's the best part - if you wanted to petition them, you could, and if they felt that having Spencers in their mall outweighed having your business, they'd tell you to take a flying leap. That's the beauty of a free market (and a free country). I have petitioned, written letters, and protested against things that I find offensive. I do it as much to exercise my right to free speech as I do because I think it might make a difference.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

As an aside - because this drives me crazy - Disney does not sponsor Gay Days - various and sundry QUILTBAG groups organize it and go to the parks, just like any other group. It drives me crazy when Christians don't do their homework and boycott Disney because an outside group goes to the parks. I guess some might argue that Disney should somehow use gaydar to refuse admittance to those there for Gay Days, but those people are what I like to call stupid.

Yeah it was just the only thing I could think of that involved a boycott so I made the point stretch because well, I don't care what Christians boycott?

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

At the risk of dragging this on...

That's really not JCP's job. This is a time where I feel that a parent should step in and say "Wow, Susie, this shirt is stupid. I hope you don't ever feel that pretty > smart." rather than "I WANT A MANAGER. WHO SELLS THINGS LIKE THIS??"

Your imagining is far more dramatic than mine, but ok. What about writing an email or letter complaining or posting the picture on your blog and complaining. Why is that something that should be done in private and not in public.

It was obviously meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Should we petition malls to remove Spencers since teen girls have to walk past the store to get to their destinations?

Not really comparable. But you could if you wanted to.
And tongue-in-cheek can exist without sexism (or racism. God could you imagine if someone had made the racist equivalent to this shirt).

They took it down because of the complaints. Multiple people (buyers, web designers, managers, etc) saw the item without incident but it didn't become an issue until that petition was started.

They took it down though, it isn't the 'fault' of any one complainer. Shockingly we live in a sexist society and we don't know what was in the designer's head, but odds are web designers and store managers don't get much of an opinion.

And yet if you look on line there are tons of offensive shirts sold by companies who don't give a fuck. So obviously the company gives a fuck about the support of its customers.

@ the bold - That's my point. If I don't support that shirt, I won't buy it. If I don't support that store, I don't shop there. knight_shadow is not representative of the masses, so just because it doesn't suit ME doesn't mean that there isn't someone else out there who likes it.

Sure, but it wasn't one person who got this pulled. It was one person who showed friends who thought it was also offensive who posted it on sites that talk about sexism and where commenters ALSO thought it was offensive and on and on. That's how this works.

I understand why JCP did what they did. My issue, again, was with the petitioners.

The idea that women should shut up and not make a big old public fuss is another sexist idea that keeps getting shoved down women's throats. If we're offended there's not a damn thing wrong with speaking up about it. That's all this is, speech.

Originally Posted by SigKapSweetie

That's the best part - if you wanted to petition them, you could, and if they felt that having Spencers in their mall outweighed having your business, they'd tell you to take a flying leap. That's the beauty of a free market (and a free country). I have petitioned, written letters, and protested against things that I find offensive. I do it as much to exercise my right to free speech as I do because I think it might make a difference.

Preach on my sister.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

It's a shirt that perpetuates a negative stereotype.
Whether or not my daughter has that shirt, she has to deal with the type of culture it represents and perpetuates.
I will always protest anything which denigrates women and their intellectual ability.

After all , I'm a sorority woman; I am the product of an organization founded by women who were told they were too weak intellectually to succeed at the college level. They fought in 1874, I'm still fighting in 2011. I am the mother of two daughters, and I've had to raise them in a culture that even in this day and age will try to sexualize them and teach them their worth is bound up in their appeal to the opposite sex. Nope, not doing it.

@ the bold - It does suck, and I hope folks don't think that I like the shirt.

Using the Greek example -- How many shirts are out there with "Iota Tappa Keg" or "I Felta Thigh" written across the front? I think they're extremely tacky, but there are people out there that like them. I'm not going to write a letter demanding that their production be stopped because I don't like them.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Do you really think this is comparable? If so, it is no surprise that you disagree.

I do. I agree with someone who posted earlier -- I don't think the line has been crossed with this specific shirt.

Originally Posted by SigKapSweetie

That's the best part - if you wanted to petition them, you could, and if they felt that having Spencers in their mall outweighed having your business, they'd tell you to take a flying leap. That's the beauty of a free market (and a free country). I have petitioned, written letters, and protested against things that I find offensive. I do it as much to exercise my right to free speech as I do because I think it might make a difference.

I know that I have the ability to petition the malls, but my point is that I wouldn't do it for a situation like this.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I do.

Then it makes sense that you disagree.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I agree with someone who posted earlier -- I don't think the line has been crossed with this specific shirt.

There is no definite line and we don't have to personally agree on such matters for them to exist and persist.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime

Well for most teens and young girls, that is not going to happen. They are not going to listen to their parents no matter how much they're told something. They're going to do/wear/say what their friends are doing, or what's popular in the stores.

That's not JCP's fault, though.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

There is no definite line and we don't have to personally agree on such matters for them to exist and persist.

I know

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Using the Greek example -- How many shirts are out there with "Iota Tappa Keg" or "I Felta Thigh" written across the front? I think they're extremely tacky, but there are people out there that like them. I'm not going to write a letter demanding that their production be stopped because don't like them.



I do. I agree with someone who posted earlier -- I don't think the line has been crossed with this specific shirt.



I know that I have the ability to petition the malls, but my point is that I wouldn't do it for a situation like this.

I totally agree with all of this. knight_shadow, FTW.

eta: lol @ "I Felta Thigh"

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

That's really not JCP's job. This is a time where I feel that a parent should step in and say "Wow, Susie, this shirt is stupid. I hope you don't ever feel that pretty > smart." rather than "I WANT A MANAGER. WHO SELLS THINGS LIKE THIS??"

If I saw this shirt at a department store or a mainstream seller, I would do more than just not purchase it and tell the people in my vicinity not to purchase it.

[knight_shadow]

@ Drole -- At the rest of your post, fair enough, but...

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The idea that women should shut up and not make a big old public fuss is another sexist idea that keeps getting shoved down women's throats. If we're offended there's not a damn thing wrong with speaking up about it. That's all this is, speech.

I wasn't trying to turn this into a "know your place, little lady" thing. Yes, folks (men, women, black, white, whatever) should speak up on things, but I just felt like THIS shirt was much ado about nothing.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If I saw this shirt at a department store or a mainstream seller, I would do more than just not purchase it and tell the people in my vicinity not to purchase it.

I doubt that a shirt like this would make it's way to a mainstream seller, but I get your point. I think this shirt would be over that line. But I also think that a shirt saying "I fucked my way to the top" or "On my way to being barefoot and pregnant" would be over the line, if it were to be sold at JCP/other dept store.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

@ Drole -- At the rest of your post, fair enough, but...



I wasn't trying to turn this into a "know your place, little lady" thing. Yes, folks (men, women, black, white, whatever) should speak up on things, but I just felt like THIS shirt was much ado about nothing.

I know you weren't, but that's because you don't think there's anything wrong with it. Of course you're going to think it's silly to speak up when there's nothing wrong with it if you don't think there's anything wrong with it.

I'm very much in favor of women speaking up to influence the messages that are being given to our - society's- daughters. They deserve to receive healthy positive messages not unhealthy negative ones.