Ganesha to Godwin's Law

[VandalSquirrel]

In a lovely resort town, Coeur d'Alene Idaho, which is two miles from Hayden Lake which was the local base of the Aryan Nation ten years ago, has controversy over a local piece of art. A program of the local Arts Commission, Art Currents, has art placed in public and it is for sale, http://lovecda.com/news/2011-artcurr...wntown-display http://www.cdaid.org/%5Cmod%5Cuserpa...tsBrochure.pdf One such piece is a statue of Ganesha a Hindu god, and people from local churches are protesting it because it is offensive, and:

"...the symbol of Ganesha is too similar to the swastika, the elephant's trunk depicts a phallic symbol, and the weapons in the statue's hands represent tools used to put fear in Hindu followers to the "gods who control their lives," according to the petition."

more on their issue with Ganesha:

"But one of the most troubling aspects of the Ganesha piece, according to Vander Griend and Lighthouse church pastor Ken Smith, is that the Nazis used a variation of Ganesha's symbol in the swastika design."

and

"Still, it's too close for comfort, said Vander Griend, who believes it goes against the Neo-Nazi reputation the area fought to overcome.

I just don't think this is something that was researched very well before it was placed in the community," said Smith, who plans to sign and share the petition against the "pagan god" with his roughly 100-member community bible church congregation. "I think most of the churches who look at this will feel the same way."

http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_n...f091ce839.html

http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_n...cc4c03286.html

The comments on phallic symbols from the professor at Stanford are good lulz. Obviously the best way to show the world Idaho doesn't have white supremacists anymore is to be religiously intolerant. I'm hoping to get a picture of it tomorrow and have some photoshop and meme fun. The artist living locally, in Spokane, and also created one of the two other religious pieces in the collection, a statue of St. Francis of Assisi

[Drolefille]

...

I actually really like Ganesh. He and I are buddies.


But this whole thing is dumb...

ETA: And that is not a particularly good representation of him IMO, but it's art.
ETAA: Otter Woman, on the other hand... beautiful.

[lthm]

I had hoped the controversy was over after the couple of folks who protested at the ArtCurrents dedication. But I suppose some people just feel the need to keep even the most ridiculous controversy alive. These pieces of art are only on display for one year or until they sell, so regardless of protests the Ganesha statue will be gone inside of a year. I'd bet the protestors treat that day as a big victory too: "See? We made it happen! Yay us!"

I can't believe their rationalizations for protesting it either. "It's an idol." "The symbol of Ganesha is too similar to a swastika." "The elephant's trunk depicts a phallic symbol." "The weapons cause fear." Yadda yadda.

It's a bloody piece of art! The swastika was an ancient symbol of good fortune in eastern cultures that was usurped a century ago by an evil force in the west, but its meaning hasn't changed in the east. And this statue is a representation of eastern culture. Just don't get me started on phallic symbols. Suffice it to say, they're everywhere. You can find more "offensive" things in everyday life. Ever looked at failblog's things that are doing it? And seriously. The weapons are intimidating? I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a religion that has scared more people into submissive obedience to a deity than Judaism or Christianity. Sadly, these are some of the same people who would protest the removal of the 10 Commandments from the courthouse lawn. You'll also note that they're not protesting the Rachel or St. Francis statues. Apparently they don't see the hypocrisy.

I'm all for people expressing their opinions, but I reserve the right to laugh at them when their opinions are absurd.

Anyway, in case you didn't get your picture for the meme, here are the images from my article on LoveCdA.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3154/...e347ff6d_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2039/...075443e9_b.jpg

[DubaiSis]

Maybe the photographs of the sculpture were bad, but I don't see anything even vaguely offensive here. And Ganesh is the best god! All you have to do to keep him happy is feed him! Who doesn't love a god that's that easy.

Here's an interpretation of ganesh I like more and displays Ganesh as the happy god most of my Hindu friends would associate him as.


As far as the lunacy about the swastika (I'm presuming there's one on the sculpture that I didn't see) would it kill anybody to learn something?

[AOII Angel]

I'm more offended by the other "art" on display. Wow, you made a moose out of scrap metal. That's very creative.

[Drolefille]

Other depictions:
A sketch
Ganesh artwork showing a swastika on his hand

Hindu gods take on a lot of 'roles' but Ganesh as remover of obstacles (and Shiva as Lord of the Dance) is one of my favorites.

ETA: Typically he has a right handed swastika as it is 'creation' vs (left handed) 'destruction' Not that the left handed swastika is 'evil' in Hinduism, destruction isn't an evil act, but part of life, but it can be 'misfortune'

/had it backwards the first time

[lthm]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

As far as the lunacy about the swastika (I'm presuming there's one on the sculpture that I didn't see) would it kill anybody to learn something?

To the best of my knowledge, the swastika marks don't appear on this interpretation of Ganesha. I don't see it in any of my photos. But then, I wasn't really looking for it when I took them. The statue has been up for awhile now, and the day before yesterday was the first time I'd heard someone throw anything about a swastika into the mix of controversy.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I'm more offended by the other "art" on display. Wow, you made a moose out of scrap metal. That's very creative.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by lthm

To the best of my knowledge, the swastika marks don't appear on this interpretation of Ganesha. I don't see it in any of my photos. But then, I wasn't really looking for it when I took them. The statue has been up for awhile now, and the day before yesterday was the first time I'd heard someone throw anything about a swastika into the mix of controversy.

If you're around the statue again, check a palm. That is usually the location of a swastika, that or under/on whatever Ganesh is sitting on.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Maybe the photographs of the sculpture were bad, but I don't see anything even vaguely offensive here. And Ganesh is the best god! All you have to do to keep him happy is feed him! Who doesn't love a god that's that easy.

Here's an interpretation of ganesh I like more and displays Ganesh as the happy god most of my Hindu friends would associate him as.


As far as the lunacy about the swastika (I'm presuming there's one on the sculpture that I didn't see) would it kill anybody to learn something?

Originally Posted by lthm

To the best of my knowledge, the swastika marks don't appear on this interpretation of Ganesha. I don't see it in any of my photos. But then, I wasn't really looking for it when I took them. The statue has been up for awhile now, and the day before yesterday was the first time I'd heard someone throw anything about a swastika into the mix of controversy.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If you're around the statue again, check a palm. That is usually the location of a swastika, that or under/on whatever Ganesh is sitting on.

The article(s) quoted the artist and he said he didn't incorporate a swastika. He's local, 30 miles away in Spokane, so he may have chosen not to add that in because of the association with the hate groups formerly in the area.

I unfortunately didn't get to it today, so next weekend I'll get up close and check it out. I'm not sure if I'll be doing that before or after my wine tasting date so the pictures may be of poor quality It can be purchased for $35,000, and it'd be kind of awesome if it was purchased and donated to North Idaho College for their peace park. The Peace Park is the land of the former Aryan Nation compound and was donated to NIC.

[AXOmom]

The Peace Park is a great cause and very deserving of the $35,000, and I agree that the fuss over this particular piece of art is ridiculous, but in my admittedly quite limited artistic opinion - that depiction is butt ugly and I wouldn't pay $5 for it let alone $35,000. Of course, no one is asking me to, so whatever floats somebody else's boat.

As much as I dislike it as art, I will say that having lived in Spokane for 11 years (they are actually only 18 miles apart -CDA is a suburb although they are loathe to admit that), it isn't nearly as atrocious as the plethoria of yard art available all over the area which primarily features carved wooden and painted stone black bears and eagles. I won't even discuss that scap metal moose since someone has already seen fit to mention that monstrosity. Let's just say we were a LONG ways from Santa Fe.

Fortunately, the lakes, mountains, rivers, and a lovely community atomsphere make up for this glaring lack of artistic achievement.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

The Peace Park is a great cause and very deserving of the $35,000, and I agree that the fuss over this particular piece of art is ridiculous, but in my admittedly quite limited artistic opinion - that depiction is butt ugly and I wouldn't pay $5 for it let alone $35,000. Of course, no one is asking me to, so whatever floats somebody else's boat.

As much as I dislike it as art, I will say that having lived in Spokane for 11 years (they are actually only 18 miles apart -CDA is a suburb although they are loathe to admit that), it isn't nearly as atrocious as the plethoria of yard art available all over the area which primarily features carved wooden and painted stone black bears and eagles. I won't even discuss that scap metal moose since someone has already seen fit to mention that monstrosity. Let's just say we were a LONG ways from Santa Fe.

Fortunately, the lakes, mountains, rivers, and a lovely community atomsphere make up for this glaring lack of artistic achievement.

I will give you suburbs and 18 miles, but that is with some very blurred lines. From downtown Spokane proper, say the intersection of Division and Sprague the center point of what defines NSEW of streets, to Sherman and Northwest aka the Coeur d'Alene Resort same defining point for streets, is over 30 miles driving I-90. Though we joke that Idaho has two capitals, Spokane and Salt lake City, and that people in North Idaho relate more to Spokane and Eastern Washington, often we relate to Montana more than E. Washington.

Hayden and Hayden Lake are pretty much connected with Coeur d'Alene as there is not a lot of open space when one drives US 95 north. However the people can be quite different, with Coeur d'Alene having many in movers from California, and it causes quite a lot of tension at times. I know people who are from or identify as being from Hayden and they were white, but were Idaho born and not part of the haters. The Aryan Nation were also in movers from Southern California in the 1970s, and like many people in the region who have garnered attention, the attitude here is quite libertarian and what you do on your land is your own business until it effects other people. The area is still very white, so white it is one of the whitest communities in the USA, and was featured in a book Searching for Whitopia, which is actually a quite interesting read.

The area is beautiful and a great resort and all year town. Their Costco also has a real good cheese and wine selection, just saying.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

The article(s) quoted the artist and he said he didn't incorporate a swastika. He's local, 30 miles away in Spokane, so he may have chosen not to add that in because of the association with the hate groups formerly in the area.

I unfortunately didn't get to it today, so next weekend I'll get up close and check it out. I'm not sure if I'll be doing that before or after my wine tasting date so the pictures may be of poor quality It can be purchased for $35,000, and it'd be kind of awesome if it was purchased and donated to North Idaho College for their peace park. The Peace Park is the land of the former Aryan Nation compound and was donated to NIC.

Then WTF are they bitching about. Asshats.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Then WTF are they bitching about. Asshats.

Probably just Googled it and saw the association. Hmmm...what will give extra weight to our argument? I know associate it with the neo-nazis! That gets everyone riled up.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

oh, I'm sorry. Are you a fan?

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I will give you suburbs and 18 miles, but that is with some very blurred lines. From downtown Spokane proper, say the intersection of Division and Sprague the center point of what defines NSEW of streets, to Sherman and Northwest aka the Coeur d'Alene Resort same defining point for streets, is over 30 miles driving I-90. Though we joke that Idaho has two capitals, Spokane and Salt lake City, and that people in North Idaho relate more to Spokane and Eastern Washington, often we relate to Montana more than E. Washington.

Hayden and Hayden Lake are pretty much connected with Coeur d'Alene as there is not a lot of open space when one drives US 95 north. However the people can be quite different, with Coeur d'Alene having many in movers from California, and it causes quite a lot of tension at times. I know people who are from or identify as being from Hayden and they were white, but were Idaho born and not part of the haters. The Aryan Nation were also in movers from Southern California in the 1970s, and like many people in the region who have garnered attention, the attitude here is quite libertarian and what you do on your land is your own business until it effects other people. The area is still very white, so white it is one of the whitest communities in the USA, and was featured in a book Searching for Whitopia, which is actually a quite interesting read.

The area is beautiful and a great resort and all year town. Their Costco also has a real good cheese and wine selection, just saying.

I didn’t intend to be snarky about the distance thing – sorry if it came across that way- that was a poke at CDA because I know being referred to as a Spokane suburb annoys the crap out of them.

For the record, 18 miles is the distance listed by distance-calculator, and it measures from city limit to city limit on I-90. It probably is 30 miles from downtown to downtown (as a note, while I am directionally challenged, I’m pretty well aware that Sprague and Division divide Spokane into directional quadrants. After 11 years it would have been hard not to notice that – even for me).

I will say that I could make it from my home in unincorporated NW Spokane County, a ½ mile beyond the Y, to CDA in 45 minutes flat which included several lights and two lane roads. Of course, I had a lead foot and a back route that avoided most of I-90.

I’m not sure if the second paragraph was intended for me or if it was meant as general information, but I’ll respond anyway. I moved to Spokane in 1996 and we left in 2007, so we watched the rise and demise of the Aryan Nations up close. I felt I knew the culture of the area pretty well by the time we left (noticed that overwhelmingly white thing about the same time I picked up on the Division and Sprague thing – clearly I have lightening quick powers of observation ).

I concur with the majority of your assessment. The one point I would qualify would be the relationship between Coeur D’Alene and Hayden Lake. It is entirely possible that despite my previously noted powers of observation , this went right passed me, but If there was an enormous amount of tension between the communities or extreme differences, I can’t say we noticed it, and I didn’t hear it mentioned by the people I knew who lived there- not that they would have had a reason to mention it.

Most of the tension we noticed was, of course, between the Aryan Nations when they were there, and everyone one else around them including the majority of Hayden Lake residents. After they left, any tension seemed to be the typical amount that exists between a city/town and its outlying communities.

I would say that while there are certainly some differences between CDA and the rest of, well, Idaho, eastern Washington, and Montana because CDA is more liberal in its politics and outlook than the communities around it (possible exception – Sand Point), I wouldn’t describe those differences as large. It could be that due to their size, we just didn’t pay much attention (kind of the same situation Spokane has with Seattle only in reverse), and perhaps they in fact see themselves as quite different from Hayden Lake and the rest of the area. Anyway, it's interesting to hear another view point.

As far as the capital goes - if it’s a choice between Spokane and Salt Lake City – don’t think twice – choose Spokane. Didn't know we were competing with Salt Lake. We knew we had Boise beat even though they were technically Idaho's capital. Loved that. Always considered ourselves very in sync with Montana, so I don’t think that would be an issue. We really assumed we should be their capital too – hence the whole Inland Empire title.

I’ll have to trust you on the Costco thing. Never had a reason to go to the one in CDA.