Casey Anthony Trial

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Because they are probably really shallow people to begin with.

Isn't there an old Vaudeville joke that goes: She's such a narcissist, she'd show up to the opening of an envelope if the papparizzi (?sp) are going to be there.

I've been around such shallow people, so it does not phase me anymore.

Agree, it came up in this thread or else I wouldn't have been thinking or sharing on the subject.

Maybe not so shallow but unaware in some cases, like the people who did an online federal petition when it is really a state issue. Or those who aren't understanding of the justice system and have misdirected anger of what happened at the trial and why the jury and judge made their decisions.

[DrPhil]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43691279...rts/?gt1=43001

[AGDee]

I feel for the mom who wakes up in the morning to discover that her baby has died of SIDS some 5 or 6 hours before and she could be convicted for failing to notify anybody within 1 or 2 hours of death, under this law.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I feel for the mom who wakes up in the morning to discover that her baby has died of SIDS some 5 or 6 hours before and she could be convicted for failing to notify anybody within 1 or 2 hours of death, under this law.

I don't think it's intended to work like that. I thought it was based on the discovery or knowledge of your kid missing or dying.

[HannahXO]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I feel for the mom who wakes up in the morning to discover that her baby has died of SIDS some 5 or 6 hours before and she could be convicted for failing to notify anybody within 1 or 2 hours of death, under this law.

I'm sure there will be some provision for that in the law, for example the parent might have 2 hours from the time that he or she discovers the child is missing or dead. 12 hours would even be reasonable IMO. But I hope that they take the time to put such preventative measures in place and the law is not passed hastily.

[knight_shadow]

How can one prove when a child is discovered?

[HannahXO]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

How can one prove when a child is discovered?

Time of death can be determined (approximately) forensically, if a child is determined to have died more than 12 (or maybe even more would be reasonable) hours before the parents reported it, there may be a problem- hopefully parents are checking on their baby in the morning.

As long as the window of time is reasonable, I think a lot of these situation-specific issues can be avoided.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

How can one prove when a child is discovered?

You mean discovered to be dead or missing?

That will be difficult to determine and it would probably be part of the police report, etc. If someone is found to be lying, there could be legal ramifications.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by HannahXO

Time of death can be determined (approximately) forensically, if a child is determined to have died more than 12 (or maybe even more would be reasonable) hours before the parents reported it, there may be a problem- hopefully parents are checking on their baby in the morning.

As long as the window of time is reasonable, I think a lot of these situation-specific issues can be avoided.

I don't know why the bolded made me chuckle. I feel bad for having done so.

Something proponents of the law need to think about:
What about parents and guardians who don't watch over their children (anything under 18) all day and everyday? This law will need to cover kid sitters and anything that can keep the child out of the immediate watch of the parent or guardian. Maybe that's covered in the law being based on the parent or guardian reporting the death or disappearance as soon as the parent or guardian discovers firsthand or is told that the child is missing or dead.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You mean discovered to be dead or missing?

That will be difficult to determine and it would probably be part of the police report, etc. If someone is found to be lying, there could be legal ramifications.

Right, which isn't very different from the way things are done now.

I still kinda bleh about this proposed Caylee's Law.

ETA:

Originally Posted by HannahXO

Time of death can be determined (approximately) forensically, if a child is determined to have died more than 12 (or maybe even more would be reasonable) hours before the parents reported it, there may be a problem- hopefully parents are checking on their baby in the morning.

As long as the window of time is reasonable, I think a lot of these situation-specific issues can be avoided.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

What about parents and guardians who don't watch over their children (anything under 18) all day and everyday?

I started typing a long-ish response to HannahXO, but this basically sums up what I wanted to say.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Right, which isn't very different from the way things are done now.

MESSAGE!!!!

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I still kinda bleh about this proposed Caylee's Law.

ME-EH-EHHHHHHH-SAGE!!!!

[HannahXO]

I agree with all of the pitfalls you all are bringing up, but- regardless of whether Case killed her child- not reporting her missing for a month should NOT be ok. Period. Even if there is no chance of finding the child alive, it at least increases the chance of forensic evidence being recovered that can lead to a conviction. Obviously convicting the murderer/kidnapper won't change what happened, but at least a serious criminal isn't walking free.

I defer to the GCers with more legal knowledge about how best to accomplish this. Maybe it doesn't need its own law? Or maybe the law just needs to be very very carefully written so it doesn't harm the innocent. I understand that cases like this are rare, but IMO if the law helps even one child (and doesn't harm the innocent) the law is worth it.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by HannahXO

I agree with all of the pitfalls you all are bringing up, but- regardless of whether Case killed her child- not reporting her missing for a month should NOT be ok. Period. Even if there is no chance of finding the child alive, it at least increases the chance of forensic evidence being recovered that can lead to a conviction. Obviously convicting the murderer/kidnapper won't change what happened, but at least a serious criminal isn't walking free.

I defer to the GCers with more legal knowledge about how best to accomplish this. Maybe it doesn't need its own law? Or maybe the law just needs to be very very carefully written so it doesn't harm the innocent. I understand that cases like this are rare, but IMO if the law helps even one child (and doesn't harm the innocent) the law is worth it.

The law wouldn't really have helped anyone, it just would have made Anthony a felon which seems to be what I keep seeing trumpeted. Crafting an elaborate law to punish a tiny tiny number of cases is not really a good idea. You rarely have a parent who would not report their child missing for a month. So rarely this is a very unique case. Anyone who won't report their child missing is either a)responsible for it, b)too addicted to notice, c) too irresponsible to nice and/or d) distrusts the police THAT much/is scared. Anything that doesn't fall under child abuse, falls under neglect or murder/harm etc. except for the distrust/fear aspect. Anthony was probably either incredibly neglectful or responsible for the child's death, BUT she claimed the fear. And as she was acquitted of abuse and responsibility for Caylee's death...

Look, I'm rambling, I realize, but we're talking a smaller than tiny number of people here. This law essentially only makes a) false criminals and b) a back up plan to punish the 'one who got away with it' when we're pissy about the justice system.

I'm also laughing at the people who ~know~ she's a sociopath when that is not how psychology or diagnostics work.

A law like this, for example, puts families where there are custody issues in particular in trouble.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I don't think it's intended to work like that. I thought it was based on the discovery or knowledge of your kid missing or dying.

Originally Posted by HannahXO

I'm sure there will be some provision for that in the law, for example the parent might have 2 hours from the time that he or she discovers the child is missing or dead. 12 hours would even be reasonable IMO. But I hope that they take the time to put such preventative measures in place and the law is not passed hastily.

I was going by the wording in the article posted by DrPhil:

Florida's proposal would make it a felony for a parent or other caregiver to not report a child under the age of 12 missing after 48 hours. It also makes it a felony to not report a child's death or "location of a child's corpse" to police within two hours of the death.

Since these are state based laws, each state's law could read slightly differently. It's hard to know just what type of provisions would be in these laws. I caught the tail end of one news report about it and they were talking about one state whose wording said something like "Parents must be in touch with their children at least once every 24 hours and report..." This just seems ludicrous to me. There are so many situations that parents could be in where they've left their children in the care of someone they trust and wouldn't be able to reasonably be in touch every 24 hours.

Even the other crazies who have killed their children (thinking Susan Smith who drove her kids into a lake) have reported them missing. Even Andrea Yates, the lady who drowned her five kids in the bathtub called the police herself.

It just feels like a knee jerk reaction with no real benefit in the long run. It certainly isn't going to be a deterrent to stop someone from killing their child.

Ironically, I've heard the phrase "I brought you into this world, I can take you out" referred to often when people tell stories about how their parents disciplined them. That's probably not a phrase you'd want to be heard uttering in our current culture.

[PiKA2001]

^^^^^^^ mmmmkay.