Gay Marriage Approved by New York Senate

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

Umm that is the point. That is the state's perogative. The state feels it is in its best interest to say "Hey, you religious guy do marriage, make sure they get the paperwork in order and we will recognize that you married them."

Nothing to do with we being embedded with religion, but more so of the state just passing the buck. The proof is in the ability of having a legal marriage outside of religion. If it was the only way to have your marriage recognized is through a religious ceremony then I would agree 100% with you, but there are, have, and always be other options outside of religion.

Your logic does not resemble our earth logic.

It's really not that hard:

1) For a variety of historical reasons, American states have chosen to allow clergy to act as agents of the state for the purpose of solemnizing marriage. No state has limited solemnization of marriage to the clergy, but all states have authorized the clergy to act as their agents in this regard.

2) Because of this historic arrangement, Americans in general do not see a clear difference between marriage in the legal/civil sense and marriage in the religious sense.

I never said that religion is "embedded" or "in bed with" religion. Those are your words. Nor did I ever suggest that religion or the clergy control marriage in this country. What I said was that "civil marriage and religious marriage are intertwined and entangled in our current system." That's a very different thing.

Because we do not have a clear distinction between civil and religious marriage, then any discussion of "marriage" is likely to pull in and refer to both, without regard to how they may be different. And it provokes arguments about whether if same-sex marriages are legalized, clergy can be required to perform them against their consciences, or whether, say, churches can be held liable for refusing to let their facilities be used for them. In a country where there is a clear distinction between marriage in the civil/legal sense and marriage in the religious sense, such questions aren't nearly as likely to arise.


ETA: What KSig RC said.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Your logic does not resemble our earth logic.

LOL.

I think BluPhire knows that his logic works well in theory but not practice.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL.

I think BluPhire knows that his logic works well in theory but not practice.

And that is the point.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

And that is the point.

And in that case I have always really really really hated "devil's advocates" so say what you mean and mean what you say.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL.

I think BluPhire knows that his logic works well in theory but not practice.

I don't know -- it really came across more to me as BluPhire rtotally missing the point I was trying to make, because his responses did miss the point. Which is why, as you say, say what you mean or at least give a heads up you're playing devil's advocate.

Meanwhile, the urge to quote Buffy was just too great. Sorry BluPhire.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't know -- it really came across more to me as BluPhire rtotally missing the point I was trying to make, because his responses did miss the point. Which is why, as you say, say what you mean or at least give a heads up you're playing devil's advocate.

Meanwhile, the urge to quote Buffy was just too great. Sorry BluPhire.

To which I would respond with "the devil don't need no damn advocates!"