Advice for PNMs: Not getting a bid to your 1st choice.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Originally Posted by Splash

How is this possible? Why wouldn't you be matched to DEF?

The way bid matching is supposed to work is that once you make it onto a chapter's first bid list you stay there until you either match to them or you get bid somewhere else. If a PNM puts DEF second but she's on their first bid list she'll stay on their first bid list and match to DEF once ABC, which she put first, reaches quota before reaching her name. Putting a chapter second doesn't lessen your chances of matching. If you are on their first bid list you stay there. A PNM gets "cross-cut" when she's so far down on both (all) chapter's bid lists that both (all) reach quota before ever getting to her.

Someone once explained the first bid list as a box. Once you get put in the box you don't get out of the box until you match somewhere.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

The way bid matching is supposed to work is that once you make it onto a chapter's first bid list you stay there until you either match to them or you get bid somewhere else. If a PNM puts DEF second but she's on their first bid list she'll stay on their first bid list and match to DEF once ABC, which she put first, reaches quota before reaching her name. Putting a chapter second doesn't lessen your chances of matching. If you are on their first bid list you stay there. A PNM gets "cross-cut" when she's so far down on both (all) chapter's bid lists that both (all) reach quota before ever getting to her.

Someone once explained the first bid list as a box. Once you get put in the box you don't get out of the box until you match somewhere.

This is correct. It doesn't matter where she put DEF. If she is on the first bid list, she'll get DEF. The above scenario occurs for women who are low on DEFs bid list, and it wouldn't matter if they put DEF first with five exclamation points and a cherry on top. If they aren't high enough on the list, they aren't high enough.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

This is correct. It doesn't matter where she put DEF. If she is on the first bid list, she'll get DEF. The above scenario occurs for women who are low on DEFs bid list, and it wouldn't matter if they put DEF first with five exclamation points and a cherry on top. If they aren't high enough on the list, they aren't high enough.

When I rushed, computers were used but after prefs you actually wrote out your final 2 choices on a piece of paper and I wrote out "PI BETA PHI!!!!!" for number one. No way that computers let you emphasize your choices these days, much less with !! and a cherry, lol...

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by carnation

When I rushed, computers were used but after prefs you actually wrote out your final 2 choices on a piece of paper and I wrote out "PI BETA PHI!!!!!" for number one. No way that computers let you emphasize your choices these days, much less with !! and a cherry, lol...

But they KNOW you want that cherry on top!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

The way bid matching is supposed to work is that once you make it onto a chapter's first bid list you stay there until you either match to them or you get bid somewhere else. If a PNM puts DEF second but she's on their first bid list she'll stay on their first bid list and match to DEF once ABC, which she put first, reaches quota before reaching her name. Putting a chapter second doesn't lessen your chances of matching. If you are on their first bid list you stay there. A PNM gets "cross-cut" when she's so far down on both (all) chapter's bid lists that both (all) reach quota before ever getting to her.

Someone once explained the first bid list as a box. Once you get put in the box you don't get out of the box until you match somewhere.

You're saying that she would indeed match to DEF, right? I had a situation in my head where that wasn't the case, but it would be the very rare exception, I think.

Does computer matching use the exact same logic as hand matching? Or is it optimizing the number of matches overall?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

You're saying that she would indeed match to DEF, right? I had a situation in my head where that wasn't the case, but it would be the very rare exception, I think.

Does computer matching use the exact same logic as hand matching? Or is it optimizing the number of matches overall?

IF she was on the first bid list, she WOULD match to DEF. IF she was on the second bid list, she would only match if she was high enough on the list to match BEFORE they hit quota. It doesn't matter if she puts them second on her list, if she can't match with her first choice, and she matches with DEF, she can kick off a PNM who put DEF #1 if that PNM is lower on DEFs list if it's for the last spot in their pledge class. The Bid List has to be taken into consideration. Cross cutting is a myth (or was a result of misunderstanding of the rules by people doing hand matching.)

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

IF she was on the first bid list, she WOULD match to DEF. IF she was on the second bid list, she would only match if she was high enough on the list to match BEFORE they hit quota. It doesn't matter if she puts them second on her list, if she can't match with her first choice, and she matches with DEF, she can kick off a PNM who put DEF #1 if that PNM is lower on DEFs list if it's for the last spot in their pledge class. The Bid List has to be taken into consideration. Cross cutting is a myth (or was a result of misunderstanding of the rules by people doing hand matching.)

Right, right. In my original post, I said that putting the wrong group first would hurt you, and now I'm thinking that was backwards, and that it would not (or if it would, only in the very rare exceptions where the matching gets "stuck" and they have to bend the rules).

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Right, right. In my original post, I said that putting the wrong group first would hurt you, and now I'm thinking that was backwards, and that it would not (or if it would, only in the very rare exceptions where the matching gets "stuck" and they have to bend the rules).

The whole confusion now comes when they start shifting quota to maximize placement. This may shift PNMs into different groups. If you're #25 on your #2 choice's list and they shift quota to 24, you suddenly end up in your #3 choice...or if they shift up to 26 for quota and you are #26 on your #1 choice's list, you immediately jump to that group. (Using simplistic numbers of course.)

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The whole confusion now comes when they start shifting quota to maximize placement. This may shift PNMs into different groups. If you're #25 on your #2 choices list and they shift quota to 24, you suddenly end up in your #3 choice...or if they shift up to 26 for quota and you are #26 on your #1 choice's list, you immediately jump to that group. (Using simplistic numbers of course.)

Thanks. I ask a lot of questions about bid matching, RFM, etc. because I do a lot of work in both forecasting and optimization. Bid matching is, effectively, a multiple objective problem, because you want to maximize PNM happiness across all PNM's and chapter happiness across all chapters. That means there has to be a trade-off somewhere, and the one chosen, for whatever historical reason, is that the chapters' preferences trump the PNMs' preferences.

So, in my prior example, I was incorrect. If quota is 10, and Polly PNM is 11, and Suzie PNM is 12 on the bid list, the spot will go to Polly over Suzie, even though this group is Suzie's first choice and Polly's 3rd. So Suzie gains nothing by listing this chapter as her #1, and Polly loses nothing by ranking them 3rd.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Thanks. I ask a lot of questions about bid matching, RFM, etc. because I do a lot of work in both forecasting and optimization. Bid matching is, effectively, a multiple objective problem, because you want to maximize PNM happiness across all PNM's and chapter happiness across all chapters. That means there has to be a trade-off somewhere, and the one chosen, for whatever historical reason, is that the chapters' preferences trump the PNMs' preferences.

So, in my prior example, I was incorrect. If quota is 10, and Polly PNM is 11, and Suzie PNM is 12 on the bid list, the spot will go to Polly over Suzie, even though this group is Suzie's first choice and Polly's 3rd. So Suzie gains nothing by listing this chapter as her #1, and Polly loses nothing by ranking them 3rd.

Exactly. In the end, the chapter gets the final say unless as long as their choices want them. The end result, if you asked the chapter, may not be so optimal. Would you really want Polly who put you 3rd over Suzie who put you #1? I probably wouldn't. But...that's how it works. Residency Match works essentially the same way, but no one questions the match, they just put in their picks and shows up on match day. If you don't match, you scramble for a leftover spot. That's sorta the equivalent of Snap bidding, I guess!