Osama Bin Laden Dead

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Celebrating any murder is sickening. It is horrific that it had to come to this in order to stop him, but our leaders made the best decisions they could with what they were given. However, to relish in his death is grotesque. Let us not forget that his ideology didn't die with him, so our accomplishment was killing a man.

Bin Laden wasn't the type to surrender or allow himself to be captured. Like I posted earlier, he had reportedly given orders to his bodyguards to shoot him if his capture ever appeared imminent. There were only two options IMHO, kill him/capture him (which he most likely would be executed) or just allow him to live out his days potentially planning more attacks. Judging from your post I assume you'd prefer the latter.

[VandalSquirrel]

I lost count of how many times I heard or saw posted a you tube link to a certain song from "Team America: World Police" yesterday. A student group bought pizza and had a party to celebrate his death, titled America is Awesome.


I couldn't suppress a giggle that the announcement came eight years to the day after GWB gave a speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln in front of a giant "Mission Accomplished" banner. His speech was about Iraq and Saddam, not Osama Bin Laden, but I can't forget the association with that banner.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Celebrating any murder is sickening. It is horrific that it had to come to this in order to stop him, but our leaders made the best decisions they could with what they were given. However, to relish in his death is grotesque. Let us not forget that his ideology didn't die with him, so our accomplishment was killing a man.

Wow. We agree on something.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Bin Laden wasn't the type to surrender or allow himself to be captured. Like I posted earlier, he had reportedly given orders to his bodyguards to shoot him if his capture ever appeared imminent. There were only two options IMHO, kill him/capture him (which he most likely would be executed) or just allow him to live out his days potentially planning more attacks. Judging from your post I assume you'd prefer the latter.

Where did she say that it shouldn't have been done? In fact, she said that we did what we had to do. You can do the right thing without it being a celebratory occasion. We're not objecting to the fact he was killed by US forces. We're objecting to celebrating the death of human life, no matter how evil.

Now, not to be hypocritical, I did get a little emotional when my husband flipped on RAW last night and they showed snips from September 11th, their tribute show, and then had Lillian Garcia sing the National Anthem and the Rock lead the Pledge. However, to me, it seemed more about honoring the troops than celebrating bin Laden's death. I'm ok with that.

[AGDee]

The problem is that, for most, it isn't really a celebration of an individual being killed.

It is a relief that this man who changed each of our lives forever in a negative way is no longer capable of doing that again.

It is hope that our soldiers will be able to return home.

It is hope that the financial resources that have been poured into this effort for a decade will be able to return home as well, where we really, really need it.

Even with the understanding that this single act will not make Al Qaeda go away and the world isn't safer because of it, there is still a patriotic pride that our military was finally able to show that you can't mess with the United States and get away with it. While not necessarily congruent with Christian values, it is a necessary message in military strategy for our survival. I admit, I have not reached Kohlberg's stage 6 of moral reasoning as King and Ghandi did. I'm just not that good. Most of us are not.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

We're not objecting to the fact he was killed by US forces.

I'm not saying you do, but her post was borderline. I'm sorry but U.S. Forces taking out Bin Laden is not a "horrific murder"

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Celebrating any murder is sickening.

It's not a murder. Murders have to be unlawful. At least where the United States is concerned, this was done pursuant to a long-standing Executive Order which no one challenged the propriety of (at least not successfully, I understand someone had attempted to challenge the propriety of a similar Executive Order authorizing the killing of Anwar Al-Awlaki, which was dismissed for several reasons). So I definitely wouldn't call it a murder.

The worst thing you could get away with calling this is a sanctioned assassination.

And really, what's the cost of taking someone like OBL alive? Do that, and you risk hostage taking or other acts to free OBL. Don't forget. We're at war. War is pretty uncivilized. The enemy doesn't get due process.

I happily celebrate this terrorist's death. May he burn in hell. The SEALs who ended him are heroes. Of course this doesn't end the war on terror, but it is a pretty major victory for the good guys. This isn't just about OBL's death. It's also about an America which in the aftermath of 9/11 has felt pretty impotent to bring its architects to justice. We have done that (mostly) now, and symbolically, that's big.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Celebrating any murder is sickening. It is horrific that it had to come to this in order to stop him, but our leaders made the best decisions they could with what they were given. However, to relish in his death is grotesque. Let us not forget that his ideology didn't die with him, so our accomplishment was killing a man.

Just wondering if you were old enough to remember the celebrations when Ted Bundy was executed for the murder of the 3 Chi Omega members at FSU. I remember some fast food restaurants giving out free Bundy fries the day of his execution. His execution was not a murder and neither was the killing of OBL.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's not a murder.

My disclaimer would read that I used the term murder in a biblical sense, not a legal one.

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Just wondering if you were old enough to remember the celebrations when Ted Bundy was executed for the murder of the 3 Chi Omega members at FSU. I remember some fast food restaurants giving out free Bundy fries the day of his execution. His execution was not a murder and neither was the killing of OBL.

Bundy and bin Laden both willingly succumbed to evil. Both of them were stopped, which was necessary for the safety of the rest of us. However (again speaking from a biblical perspective), all human life deserves respect and compassion. The loss of bin Laden is the loss of a leader that, had he been on the righteous path, would have been a powerful force for good. It is heartbreaking that he made the choices he did and was responsible for so many deaths. He had to be stopped.

I come from a long line of soldiers and if I've learned anything it is that no one wants to go to war and no one wants to kill another person. So, I would rather people expend their energies not celebrating bin Laden's death, but praying for the soldiers who bore the burden, and will have to deal with the psychological impact, of taking lives, as well as all the extremists who can still make the right choice about their involvement in evil activities.

[Munchkin03]

Who are the idiots who think that this means the war is over? The folks acting like it was V-E day and V-J day up in Times Square clearly never took high school history.

Also, at people equating OBL's death to Hitler's. It shows a complete lack of knowledge about the collapse of the Axis Forces during WWII, and a conflation of OBL's dastardly deeds with those of Hitler.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Who are the idiots who think that this means the war is over? The folks acting like it was V-E day and V-J day up in Times Square clearly never took high school history.

Also, at people equating OBL's death to Hitler's. It shows a complete lack of knowledge about the collapse of the Axis Forces during WWII, and a conflation of OBL's dastardly deeds with those of Hitler.

Most of what I've seen re: Hitler/Osama had to do with the confirmations of their deaths (May 1)

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Most of what I've seen re: Hitler/Osama had to do with the confirmations of their deaths (May 1)

I've only seen that once...I've heard/read people say, "this is how our grandparents felt when we got Hitler!" too many times to count. Besides not being quite correct, it conflates OBL (who's a worldwide bastard, to be sure) with Hitler (who's probably the worldwide bastard of modern history).

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I've only seen that once...I've heard/read people say, "this is how our grandparents felt when we got Hitler!" too many times to count. Besides not being quite correct, it conflates OBL (who's a worldwide bastard, to be sure) with Hitler (who's probably the worldwide bastard of modern history).

While comparing something to Hitler is the automatic losing argument of the internet world, I think that those people are making the best comparison they know how.

This, all this going around right now, is a cathartic response. The stupidity, the USA USA USA, the fuck you OBL burn in hell and the tears and everything. People needed it, it brings closure and even if most of it isn't the most mature of behaviors or words, it doesn't mean it's not useful to the people feeling/saying/doing those things even if they don't know that at an intellectual level.

We'll get past it and life will go on.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I've only seen that once...I've heard/read people say, "this is how our grandparents felt when we got Hitler!" too many times to count. Besides not being quite correct, it conflates OBL (who's a worldwide bastard, to be sure) with Hitler (who's probably the worldwide bastard of modern history).

Not to mention that "getting Hitler" pretty much did mean that the war in Europe was over.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

While comparing something to Hitler is the automatic losing argument of the internet world, I think that those people are making the best comparison they know how.

This, all this going around right now, is a cathartic response. The stupidity, the USA USA USA, the fuck you OBL burn in hell and the tears and everything. People needed it, it brings closure and even if most of it isn't the most mature of behaviors or words, it doesn't mean it's not useful to the people feeling/saying/doing those things even if they don't know that at an intellectual level.

We'll get past it and life will go on.

Of course we will.

I think, as a New Yorker (but not one who was here during 9/11), I'm more willing to excuse the emotional responses as catharsis and finding "closure," than I am to accept these historic comparisons that make no sense. Note that I did not criticize the emotional responses, mainly the faux-intellectual blathering and assumptions that the War on Terror is over.

[IrishLake]

I think everyone can agree that we do not yet know if the "Terror War" is over. Because of this, complacency is not an option.