Obama's Birth Certificate Released

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by SOM

Drolefille: I agree with you up to a point. Sen. McMain's matter is settled-he is a citizen and he did not win the election. If he had, we might have President Palin right now.
Congress passed a non-binding agreement, not a bill.
Anything else involving his background will have to wait until someone else with simular situation runs for President.

Humm--One just about has to start to wonder if Palin knew about this at the time and....VBEG

Did McCain die or something?

[SOM]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

Did McCain die or something?

No BluPhire-At at all.
You may wish to review the links I posted above.
Over the past few years I have taken the time to not only read up on those but to also talk to those far smarter, far more involved in those matters than I.
From what I have put together, it is my very humble opinion that Sen. John McCain is not a natural born citizen.
However, as I have pointed out, that is not my call nor decision.
And, as he lost the election, we we never know the hows and whys of a decision by the USSC.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by SOM

From what I have put together, it is my very humble opinion that Sen. John McCain is not a natural born citizen.

WTF there's McCain birthers too?!?

According to the United States naturalization and immigration laws McCain is a natural born citizen. I'm no SCOTUS but natural born citizen = birthright citizenship, so if you're BORN a U.S. citizen (shouldn't matter where) you should be eligible to become president. Unless you're making a case that people not born in the 50 states aren't considered natural born, which would make the residents of PR, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands and N Mariana Islands illegitimate citizens.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

WTF there's McCain birthers too?!?

According to the United States naturalization and immigration laws McCain is a natural born citizen. I'm no SCOTUS but natural born citizen = birthright citizenship, so if you're BORN a U.S. citizen (shouldn't matter where) you should be eligible to become president. Unless you're making a case that people not born in the 50 states aren't considered natural born, which would make the residents of PR, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands and N Mariana Islands illegitimate citizens.

Which would also make Obama a birthright citizen since his mother was an American.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

WTF there's McCain birthers too?!?

According to the United States naturalization and immigration laws McCain is a natural born citizen. I'm no SCOTUS but natural born citizen = birthright citizenship, so if you're BORN a U.S. citizen (shouldn't matter where) you should be eligible to become president. Unless you're making a case that people not born in the 50 states aren't considered natural born, which would make the residents of PR, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands and N Mariana Islands illegitimate citizens.

Given the legal precedent, it actually is more complicated than that. McCain was born the Panama Canal Zone (although some say he was born at a hospital outside the Canal Zone). There is honest difference of legal opinion about whether one is a "natural-born citizen" within the meaning of the Constitution under those circumstances, even when born of American parents.

I know we had a discussion about this back in 2008, but I can't find it now.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Which would also make Obama a birthright citizen since his mother was an American.

Not necessarily. There are residency conditions the mother must meet in order to pass citizenship on to her child. I'm not saying this doesn't apply to Obama (I don't know much about his mother) I'm just pointing out that there are situations where U.S. citizen mothers CANNOT pass down citizenship.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Given the legal precedent, it actually is more complicated than that. McCain was born the Panama Canal Zone (although some say he was born at a hospital outside the Canal Zone). There is honest difference of legal opinion about whether one is a "natural-born citizen" within the meaning of the Constitution under those circumstances, even when born of American parents.

It's only complicated because people want to make it that way.

The PCZ was a U.S. Territory at the time of McCain's birth, I could see the controversy if he was born on foreign soil but since he wasn't...

Pursuant to 8 USCS § 1401, the following persons can acquire citizenship by jus soli:

-A person born in the U.S., and subject to its jurisdiction.
-A person born in the U.S. as a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe.
-A person of unknown parentage found in the U.S. while under the age of five year. The person can remain a U.S. citizen if it is not shown before s/he attains twenty five years that the person was not born in the U.S.
-A person born in an outlying possession of the U.S. (i.e., including Puerto Rico, the Panama Canal Zone, Panama, the Virgin Islands and Guam.) of parents, one of whom is a citizen of the U.S. who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person.

Not trying to be difficult here, I just don't understand why he wouldn't be eligible for the office of the presidency.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Not trying to be difficult here, I just don't understand why he wouldn't be eligible for the office of the presidency.

Because you're describing a statutory definition. The question in the case of the president is whether he or she meets the constitutional requirement, not the statutory definition.

And I'm not saying he wasn't/isn't eligible. I'm just saying the question it isn't limited to nutjobs.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Not necessarily. There are residency conditions the mother must meet in order to pass citizenship on to her child. I'm not saying this doesn't apply to Obama (I don't know much about his mother) I'm just pointing out that there are situations where U.S. citizen mothers CANNOT pass down citizenship.

Yep, I'm aware of that, and he's still an American by those criteria. People, however, argue that there is a higher bar set for President. That would be what MysticCat is referring you to on the older thread. If you want to apply this logic, both are US citizens no matter where they were born...though Obama was born in Hawaii which passes the higher limitation.

[SOM]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Not necessarily. There are residency conditions the mother must meet in order to pass citizenship on to her child. I'm not saying this doesn't apply to Obama (I don't know much about his mother) I'm just pointing out that there are situations where U.S. citizen mothers CANNOT pass down citizenship.



It's only complicated because people want to make it that way.

The PCZ was a U.S. Territory at the time of McCain's birth, I could see the controversy if he was born on foreign soil but since he wasn't...

Pursuant to 8 USCS § 1401, the following persons can acquire citizenship by jus soli:

-A person born in the U.S., and subject to its jurisdiction.
-A person born in the U.S. as a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe.
-A person of unknown parentage found in the U.S. while under the age of five year. The person can remain a U.S. citizen if it is not shown before s/he attains twenty five years that the person was not born in the U.S.
-A person born in an outlying possession of the U.S. (i.e., including Puerto Rico, the Panama Canal Zone, Panama, the Virgin Islands and Guam.) of parents, one of whom is a citizen of the U.S. who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person.

Not trying to be difficult here, I just don't understand why he wouldn't be eligible for the office of the presidency.

PiKA2001:
Not to start any thing and not to be at all difficult with you or several of the other posters-who have written some rather interesting POV's and thought-But did you take the time to review the links that I posted? There are people a great deal more educated on this subject than I that do not see this as a slam dunk matter-now or perhaps in the future.

[SOM]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Given the legal precedent, it actually is more complicated than that. McCain was born the Panama Canal Zone (although some say he was born at a hospital outside the Canal Zone). There is honest difference of legal opinion about whether one is a "natural-born citizen" within the meaning of the Constitution under those circumstances, even when born of American parents.

I know we had a discussion about this back in 2008, but I can't find it now.

MysticCat: Very good posting and thoughts.

[moe.ron]

Obama strikes back against Trump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkTz...layer_embedded