"Booooooyaahhhh...I'm not really pregnant!"

[psy]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It is not safe to assume that a well written article (once she is in college and has research mentors) will not receive peer review and publication if the methodology and findings are not crappy.

Well, every journal I've ever submitted to (psych grad student here with 6 journal publications (4 peer-reviewed) and a few others submitted, so I have some background in this, although not extensive) has required a statement that the research was IRB approved and in accordance with ethical standards, which this wasn't, so, no, I don't think any reputable, peer-reviewed journal would take it these days.

[DrPhil]

Thanks for sharing your C.V. I'll spare you mine.

We don't know all of the details of her study and what, if anything, she has planned for future studies. So, like I said, it is not safe to assume that this study is a waste and she cannot eventually have a peer reviewed publication even loosely based on this study.

And she may not have any interest in any of that. She may have only wanted to complete her senior project and get some attention for the topic. Maybe publishing in a magazine or newspaper is more her desire. That is also fine since this is a very public topic that shouldn't be relegated to those of us who regularly read scholarly, peer-reviewed journals.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

We don't know all of the details of her study and what, if anything, she has planned for future studies. So, like I said, it is not safe to assume that this study is a waste--

Nor is it safe to label it brilliant.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Nor is it safe to label it brilliant.

I find it extremely brilliant for what it is. You don't have to feel the same.

And don't edit my post to remove its context. I'm talking about what this young lady can possibly do with similar studies in the future.

[DrPhil]

These comments made me think of GC:

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?p=1450177

[psy]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Thanks for sharing your C.V. I'll spare you mine.

We don't know all of the details of her study and what, if anything, she has planned for future studies. So, like I said, it is not safe to assume that this study is a waste and she cannot eventually have a peer reviewed publication even loosely based on this study.

And she may not have any interest in any of that. She may have only wanted to complete her senior project and get some attention for the topic. Maybe publishing in a magazine or newspaper is more her desire. That is also fine since this is a very public topic that shouldn't be relegated to those of us who regularly read scholarly, peer-reviewed journals.

Oh, that is in no way my CV, trust me! And do you have any experience with social science research, IRBs, etc., because it's kind of odd that you wouldn't see the potential ethical confounds in this--and the methodological issues, for that matter--if you do.

If she wants to publish in a magazine or popular press, fine with me--although I have issues with rewarding research with notable, uncontrolled and unaccounted for potential for psychological harm in modern times. Granted, some of most influential studies in psychology would be unethical be today's standards, but ethical standards in research also came about for damn good reasons.

If she wants to do a future study, done ethically, on the same topic, sure, she can try to publish it anywhere she wants to.

On the study itself... I think it is interesting, yes, and probably will be grounds for some interesting self-reflection in that high school. However, you have to keep in mind the methodological flaw (and it's a big one, IMO) of having one person do everything in the study--be in the participant, the observer, the principal investigator, the analyst, etc.--HUGE potential for bias issues that would need to be addressed if anyone wanted to make this publishable, regardless of ethics. She probably came in with expectations and probably, deliberately or not, focused on responses which confirmed those and cherry-picked them. This isn't a criticism of her--it's human nature. But it's also why this type of research just wouldn't fly professionally, except maybe as a letter to the editor or a bare "base:" for future studies. It's very interesting and probably contributed something to her personal gtrowth and again, self-reflection, but it's hardly ground-breaking, IMO.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by psy

Oh, that is in no way my CV, trust me!

Of course it isn't, hence the sarcasm.

Originally Posted by psy

And do you have any experience with social science research, IRBs, etc.,

Yes. Don't imply that social science researchers have a uniform perspective on this matter.

Originally Posted by psy

because it's kind of odd that you wouldn't see the potential ethical confounds in this--and the methodological issues, for that matter--if you do.

The bolded is the correct wording. With all due respect, as a graduate student you will learn more and more about why there are debates over ethical and methodological issues. You should have already learned that. If ethical and methodological issues were so cut and dry, there would be no room for debate. Participant observation is a complex methodology that some researchers and scholars strongly oppose regardless of how well ethics and methodology are considered and operated. That is the perceivably thin line between personal (educated) opinion and the process of conducting research.

LOL @ the rest of your post. This is some serious stuff, eh? Like I said, if she gets to college and if she has research mentors and if she wants to further this research...the world shall see whether this is respectable research that is worthy of any kind of publication. In the meantime, she's a high school student whose research has received varying opinions of the methodology and findings. Cool.

[psy]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Of course it isn't, hence the sarcasm.



Yes. Don't imply that social science researchers have a uniform perspective on this matter.



The bolded is the correct wording. With all due respect, as a graduate student you will learn more and more about why there are debates over ethical and methodological issues. You should have already learned that. If ethical and methodological issues were so cut and dry, there would be no room for debate. Participant observation is a complex methodology that some researchers and scholars strongly oppose regardless of how well ethics and methodology are considered and operated. That is the perceivably thin line between personal (educated) opinion and the process of conducting research.

LOL @ the rest of your post. This is some serious stuff, eh? Like I said, if she gets to college and if she has research mentors and if she wants to further this research...the world shall see whether this is respectable research that is worthy of any kind of publication. In the meantime, she's a high school student whose research has received varying opinions of the methodology and findings. Cool.

Oh, honey, I do research on abuse in "vulnerable populations"--it's not like my research is the most IRB-friendly! But telling someone that you're pregnant with their grandchild for 6 months when you know you're not? Reading off selected, derisive comments in front of the whole school, with names included? A high school psychology student could tell you that those are seriously questionable things--it's not like we're talking about wording on a consent form here.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by psy

Oh, honey, I do research on abuse in "vulnerable populations"--it's not like my research is the most IRB-friendly! But telling someone that you're pregnant with their grandchild for 6 months when you know you're not? Reading off selected, derisive comments in front of the whole school, with names included? A high school psychology student could tell you that those are seriously questionable things--it's not like we're talking about wording on a consent form here.

"Oh, honey" really? Really? Lay off that act.

We get all that, really we do, thing is, she is a high school student. Likely the adults supervising her were not psychologists, or people particularly trained in IRB procedures and informed consent and so on. Blah blah, stuff is problematic, but it's over and done with and something interesting might come of it. Like legit research either by her or other researchers. The fact that this could not have been done by a professional actually makes it more intriguing.

And quite frankly it was an incredibly gutsy thing to do. I give her major props.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by psy

Oh, honey, I do research on abuse in "vulnerable populations"--it's not like my research is the most IRB-friendly!

Oh, student, it's great that you now remember that researchers and scholars don't all agree on issues of ethics and methodology, even after being well aware of "the potential." Cool.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. Yes, that is also a point of conducting such research. Do people who already know you change their behaviors of you? If so, how so? How were you treated; and how can that possibly be compared to how others have been treated?

Hmmmm....I see it as "valuable" in this vein only. I'm sure she is very proud of her efforts--she put in a lot more dedication to her senior project than any high schooler I know. However, I do agree that the reactions were very much tailored to her so I have doubts as to how much this can be generalized. I was particularly intrigued by her saying that someone made the statement, "Well, it was bound to happen." Bound to happen to whom? To a girl who had a long-term boyfriend? To a girl who was fast? To her, Gaby? Depending on how the reactionary comments were meant, they could illuminate how people feel about a particular type of teenager (and like it was said on the first page, those are sucky yet expected reactions) or if they were all personalized, then the only person who would be enlightened is the girl who did it. Now she knows what others think of her. That's great but it's not the big step toward change that she said she hoped she made.

And I agree about the boyfriend's parents being let in on the secret. There probably was a huge sense of loss after 6 months of thinking you're going to have a grandchild then finding out in a moment that it's not happening. Relief, too but the loss would be there.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Hmmmm....I see it as "valuable" in this vein only.

That is why it is micro-level qualitative research. This study by itself is not intended to be generalizable. This study is also an example of exploratory research.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This study by itself is not intended to be generalizable.

Are you sure that wasn't her intention? In the video, Gaby talked about how many negative stereotypes there are that she wanted to break and she hoped to have impacted the lives of the other students. I am pointing out that, if the results of this "study" aren't generalizable, then even that is unlikely. The principals comments were more realistic--that one instance isn't really going to do much but it at least opens the conversation.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Are you sure that wasn't her intention? In the video, Gaby talked about how many negative stereotypes there are that she wanted to break and she hoped to have impacted the lives of the other students. I am pointing out that, if the results of this "study" aren't generalizable, then even that is unlikely.

Participant observation research by itself isn't intended to be generalizable and is not generalizable. This high school student doesn't have to understand that for it to be true; and she probably doesn't understand that.

What she is saying about stereotypes and impacting others' lives (her study did impact others' lives which is part of the potential ethical dilemmas in conducting such research) has nothing to do with the study's generalizability.

Originally Posted by christiangirl

The principals comments were more realistic--that one instance isn't really going to do much but it at least opens the conversation.

LOL. Look, this high school student didn't claim (beyond a teenager's sense of reality and understanding) to completely change the world or to have a lasting impact on everyone and everything. She did influence those who are still talking about and thinking about her study---good or bad--including but not limited people's perceptions and the future implications of conducting such research. Therefore, the principal's comments only add to the student's observations and comments of her research. The principal's comments don't invalidate the student's observations and comments.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. Look, this high school student didn't claim (beyond a teenager's sense of reality and understanding) to completely change the world or to have a lasting impact on everyone and everything.

No one said she did. The way the principal formed his statements were more realistic than her and hers, even if they both hope for the same thing. So I'm diggin' his bandwagon.

Do you really have to write a novel in response to everything? #teamkettle