Pledge worried about small fraternity

[jflynn]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And here I thought it was about brotherhood. My mistake.

Once again, the values of your fraternity that you tout so much are completely at odds with what you're posting.

This. SO MUCH this.

My chapter is not particularly large, but I wouldn't trade the bond I have with them for the world. Certainly not for ever-fluctuating numbers.

[sigtau305]

My Chapter currently has 25 members with three associate members right now for this semester. I agree with the majority in this thread that numbers doesn't mean much. As long as you enjoy yourself bonding with your future brothers, it's all good.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And here I thought it was about brotherhood. My mistake.

Once again, the values of your fraternity that you tout so much are completely at odds with what you're posting.

Yep.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

You seriously need to learn that your experience is NOT the only experience. Despite your insistence that your way is the only way that works, many smaller chapters happily function across the country. There is more than one successful model in the Greek world. The mega-chapter with the huge house isn't the only one.

And an even bigger yep.

[dnall]

I'm not talking at all about my school or my undergrad experience.

While I certainly believe very deeply in what my fraternity is about, operationally it is still a business. As a business, it must provide adequate services to meet the expectations of members or they will either not stay members or pay or both.

For an NIC fraternity at any school that is 14-20 events a year, and those have a definable cost. It will be variable from place to place, depending on the rule structure between your school and nationals as locally enforced, and what things cost in that area based on what's available. I can show you locations where to do that many events according to the rules/costs they are required to deal with the min cost regardless if you have 20 or 70 members would be close to 100k/yr. And I can show you other places where you can accomplish the same thing for a tiny fraction of that cost.

I don't know what the economics of the greek system in Hawaii are. I'm not commenting on that. All I know is fewer members means less money, which drastically limits what you can do. That doesn't mean you can't survive or have a good greek experience, but that lack of resources will define that greek experience.

While a 100man chapter has huge financial resources, there are just as many cons to that end of the spectrum as well, they just tend to be less about money. Some happy medium supportable by the school is the most balanced situation. 20-anything is always going to be a struggle for resources. That chapter would be best served to get their numbers up closer to 40. There's a lot more synergy in that range to capitalize on.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by dnall

I'm not talking at all about my school or my undergrad experience.

While I certainly believe very deeply in what my fraternity is about, operationally it is still a business. As a business, it must provide adequate services to meet the expectations of members or they will either not stay members or pay or both.

For an NIC fraternity at any school that is 14-20 events a year, and those have a definable cost. It will be variable from place to place, depending on the rule structure between your school and nationals as locally enforced, and what things cost in that area based on what's available. I can show you locations where to do that many events according to the rules/costs they are required to deal with the min cost regardless if you have 20 or 70 members would be close to 100k/yr. And I can show you other places where you can accomplish the same thing for a tiny fraction of that cost.

I don't know what the economics of the greek system in Hawaii are. I'm not commenting on that. All I know is fewer members means less money, which drastically limits what you can do. That doesn't mean you can't survive or have a good greek experience, but that lack of resources will define that greek experience.

While a 100man chapter has huge financial resources, there are just as many cons to that end of the spectrum as well, they just tend to be less about money. Some happy medium supportable by the school is the most balanced situation. 20-anything is always going to be a struggle for resources. That chapter would be best served to get their numbers up closer to 40. There's a lot more synergy in that range to capitalize on.

@ the bolded:

WHY DO YOU SAY THINGS THAT ARE NOT TRUE.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Abitworried

Hey guys,

I recently went through rush during the Spring and got a bid from the fraternity that I wanted. However, after accepting my bid I realized that the fraternity has about 23 active members with 12 pledges for Spring. Also, I heard that only one person crossed during Winter. Rushing for other fraternities throughout the week I thought most chapters hovered around the 50-60 range and this gotten me a little worried about the growth of the chapter I'm in. I understand I'm only a pledge, but having 23 active members can't be a healthy number, can it?

I will say that the morale of the fraternity is very high though. Almost every active was at every rush event and the bid party they hosted for us was a blast. I really lack the experience in the running of a Greek organization so I was hoping the experienced members on this forum could share some insight.

Thank you.

It really can vary by campus and Inter/National Organization, but what it comes down to is your chapter being able to function financially, and at a level acceptable to the members on campus. The thing that I noticed about your post is that you mentioned the morale is high, which is crucial for any chapter to succeed regardless of size. I'm not sure what the dynamics of your chapter are, but when paying your bills ask what your money is going to and about the financial health of your chapter. This is often announced and discussed at chapter meetings but I'm not sure of your membership status or how your group works.

If you have 35 or so members and can function (academics, bills, social functions, etc.) that's great. With a smaller group you have better opportunities to get to know your brothers, be involved in your chapter leadership wise, and maybe even at the Inter/National level. If the members are getting what they need from the fraternity experience it will allow you as brothers to find new and more members who fit in and not just to take people to pay the bills or be a number.

Don't worry about lacking experience now, because I think you're a new member who hasn't been initiated and this is the time to learn about your group, get to know the initiated members and form bonds with your pledge brothers. Be as involved as reasonably possible while keeping up with your studies, ask questions, and enjoy your new member period.

[DubaiSis]

Also something to think about is your pledge class relative to your total chapter size. It sounds like they are in heavy duty growth mode. If the guys are enthusiastic enough to show up to everything, that is a very good sign for continued growth, if that's your goal. By maintaining enthusiasm and brotherhood, the numbers will follow. I wouldn't sweat it, and if recruitment is your thing, get involved with that when the time comes.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Also something to think about is your pledge class relative to your total chapter size.

That's something the OP can actually have an effect on. My advice to him would be that if he does everything he can to keep as many of his fellow pledges as are worthy , his chapter will be at the 50-60 mark in fairly short order.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I have also seen threads here about chapters that had too much growth in a short time, and that caused them trouble, or at least meant they had a lot of change to manage at once.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by dnall

I'm not talking at all about my school or my undergrad experience.

While I certainly believe very deeply in what my fraternity is about, operationally it is still a business. As a business, it must provide adequate services to meet the expectations of members or they will either not stay members or pay or both.

So all of our "businesses" must be F500 in order to be successful? There's no market for mom-and-pop shops?

I'm not sure which ass cheek you pulled your formula from, but how do you know that the events provided by a 20-30 member chapter AREN'T meeting the expectations of members? They are, after all, the ones PLANNING said events.

For an NIC fraternity at any school that is 14-20 events a year, and those have a definable cost. It will be variable from place to place, depending on the rule structure between your school and nationals as locally enforced, and what things cost in that area based on what's available. I can show you locations where to do that many events according to the rules/costs they are required to deal with the min cost regardless if you have 20 or 70 members would be close to 100k/yr. And I can show you other places where you can accomplish the same thing for a tiny fraction of that cost.

The bold is where you keep fucking up. If you want to say "For ATO at large colleges..." fine. You obviously don't have enough knowledge of every NIC organization (one of which is my organization), so you cannot speak on the "norms" at EVERY school.

I don't know what the economics of the greek system in Hawaii are. I'm not commenting on that. All I know is fewer members means less money, which drastically limits what you can do. That doesn't mean you can't survive or have a good greek experience, but that lack of resources will define that greek experience.

Here's a formula.

100 members x $500 dues = $50,000

30 members x $2000 dues = $60,000

So -- fewer members does NOT always mean less money.

While a 100man chapter has huge financial resources, there are just as many cons to that end of the spectrum as well, they just tend to be less about money. Some happy medium supportable by the school is the most balanced situation. 20-anything is always going to be a struggle for resources. That chapter would be best served to get their numbers up closer to 40. There's a lot more synergy in that range to capitalize on.

So Regional State University is always going to struggle, regardless of the fact that the campus can't support hundred-man chapters? Ok.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

So Regional State University is always going to struggle, regardless of the fact that the campus can't support hundred-man chapters? Ok.

I'm also curious about the aforementioned "14-20 events" every chapter has to have every year.

[dekeguy]

There seem to be a couple of bits of info about your chapter that are lacking here. Some fraternities emphasize brotherhood more than others. Some emphasize size of chapter. Some are highly selective and traditionally have smaller chapters. Some are pretty much on their own and some have really heavy alumni support (financial contributions, house corporations, dues and fees 'scholarships' for good candidates who might not otherwise be able to afford the costs, etc).
As we all have heard so many times, find where you fit and go for it. Since this chapter is one you liked and were happy to receive a bid from take a look at how this one interacts and what it does. Brotherhood in a smaller house is easier to attain than in an anthill.
If you fit well in your chapter then have a good pledge period and when you are initiated put real effort into seeking out top quality prospectives. My view is that it doesn't take huge numbers but great brothers to make a chapter work.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

My view is that it doesn't take huge numbers but great brothers to make a chapter work.

Exactly.

[DrPhil]

Dnall reminds me of Greek Life advisors/representatives who prefer certain GLOs and certain types of Greek Life. As a result, they are partial to certain GLOs and certain types of Greek Life. I remember the days of partial Greek Life offices. It was difficult for the GLOs that didn't have what the Greek Life offices considered the winning formula (regardless of the GLOs' local and national policies and procedures). That winning formula, as far as those Greek Life people were considered, is being an NPC or NIC GLO; either having a house or a chapter room; and having a large chapter in relation to the size of the student population.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I'm also curious about the aforementioned "14-20 events" every chapter has to have every year.

I'm guessing he means "14-20 events that the chapter is stupid enough to invite everyone with an ovary to and completely pay for just so they can maybe get laid."

Thankfully, most chapters have more sense than to waste their money in such a manner.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I remember the days of partial Greek Life offices.

You say that like they're over. Unfortunately they're not.