Pledge worried about small fraternity

[Abitworried]

Hey guys,

I recently went through rush during the Spring and got a bid from the fraternity that I wanted. However, after accepting my bid I realized that the fraternity has about 23 active members with 12 pledges for Spring. Also, I heard that only one person crossed during Winter. Rushing for other fraternities throughout the week I thought most chapters hovered around the 50-60 range and this gotten me a little worried about the growth of the chapter I'm in. I understand I'm only a pledge, but having 23 active members can't be a healthy number, can it?

I will say that the morale of the fraternity is very high though. Almost every active was at every rush event and the bid party they hosted for us was a blast. I really lack the experience in the running of a Greek organization so I was hoping the experienced members on this forum could share some insight.

Thank you.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by Abitworried

Hey guys,

I recently went through rush during the Spring and got a bid from the fraternity that I wanted. However, after accepting my bid I realized that the fraternity has about 23 active members with 12 pledges for Spring. Also, I heard that only one person crossed during Winter. Rushing for other fraternities throughout the week I thought most chapters hovered around the 50-60 range and this gotten me a little worried about the growth of the chapter I'm in. I understand I'm only a pledge, but having 23 active members can't be a healthy number, can it?

I will say that the morale of the fraternity is very high though. Almost every active was at every rush event and the bid party they hosted for us was a blast. I really lack the experience in the running of a Greek organization so I was hoping the experienced members on this forum could share some insight.

Thank you.

Why couldn't it be healthy? If you have a close brotherhood, and high participation levels, what else can you ask for?

And don't worry about "running" your organization just yet. Enjoy your time as a pledge. It will never come again.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Abitworried

Hey guys,

I recently went through rush during the Spring and got a bid from the fraternity that I wanted. However, after accepting my bid I realized that the fraternity has about 23 active members with 12 pledges for Spring. Also, I heard that only one person crossed during Winter. Rushing for other fraternities throughout the week I thought most chapters hovered around the 50-60 range and this gotten me a little worried about the growth of the chapter I'm in. I understand I'm only a pledge, but having 23 active members can't be a healthy number, can it?

I will say that the morale of the fraternity is very high though. Almost every active was at every rush event and the bid party they hosted for us was a blast. I really lack the experience in the running of a Greek organization so I was hoping the experienced members on this forum could share some insight.

Thank you.

Unless your national is on your back about your numbers being higher, and if your house/living space is filled and there are no debts, who cares?

There are healthy fraternities with fewer than 23 members. It's all relative. The only time it becomes a problem is if YOU make it so.

[Kevin]

Sounds like you're fine. There's a chapter on my campus that has 140 members, but can't get enough of them to participate in anything meaningful to compete with chapters which are at the 30-something level.

Numbers ain't everything.

[dnall]

Yeah, you're going to be broke, which will very seriously limit what you can do, as well as your ability to grow in competition with other chapters (assuming they're actually 50-60). That's not necessarily deadly, but it is a significant challenge to overcome.

Right now you're a pledge. You got a bid from the place you fit in and wanted to be. You're love for the org will grow over time. Just focus on that.

When you reach the backside as an active, there will be opportunities to step up as a leader, regardless if you have a position or not (which may be hard to avoid with 23 guys). When you get there, you can look around beyond your campus and find there are methods to rapidly increase size without harming quality. It comes with growing pains, but gets you in a fiscal position of being able to compete with major leaders on campus. As long as you stay on top of it, you should be able to do great things.

While this greek experience will be different than being in a 60man or 100man chapter, the potential benefits you can realize by being successful are just as high as the challenges you face. Just make the most of your experience, and enjoy it while it lasts.

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by dnall

Yeah, you're going to be broke, which will very seriously limit what you can do, as well as your ability to grow in competition with other chapters (assuming they're actually 50-60). That's not necessarily deadly, but it is a significant challenge to overcome.

Right now you're a pledge. You got a bid from the place you fit in and wanted to be. You're love for the org will grow over time. Just focus on that.

When you reach the backside as an active, there will be opportunities to step up as a leader, regardless if you have a position or not (which may be hard to avoid with 23 guys). When you get there, you can look around beyond your campus and find there are methods to rapidly increase size without harming quality. It comes with growing pains, but gets you in a fiscal position of being able to compete with major leaders on campus. As long as you stay on top of it, you should be able to do great things.

While this greek experience will be different than being in a 60man or 100man chapter, the potential benefits you can realize by being successful are just as high as the challenges you face. Just make the most of your experience, and enjoy it while it lasts.

Since when does low numbers mean a chapter is broke and can't do anything? One group on my campus surged to 50 or so members while the other 3 had 30 or less and none of the groups had any sort of financial difficulties and had similar social calendars. I've seen just as many large chapters with financial difficulties as smaller chapters.

Unless you have your national organization shouting for more numbers (and, unfortunately, all too often national groups make numbers the only measurement of success), some chapters don't need or want to have that many people. I know, I know, quality and quantity aren't mutually exclusive but there are some chapters that really enjoy being smaller and cater to that type of audience.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Since when does low numbers mean a chapter is broke and can't do anything? One group on my campus surged to 50 or so members while the other 3 had 30 or less and none of the groups had any sort of financial difficulties and had similar social calendars. I've seen just as many large chapters with financial difficulties as smaller chapters.

Unless you have your national organization shouting for more numbers (and, unfortunately, all too often national groups make numbers the only measurement of success), some chapters don't need or want to have that many people. I know, I know, quality and quantity aren't mutually exclusive but there are some chapters that really enjoy being smaller and cater to that type of audience.

Dnall doesn't believe in healthy chapters under 50-60. Our campus had an even larger range among the 13 fraternities on campus (no NPHCs included) from 10 or so to 70+ and all did ok. The smaller ones didn't do as many social events with the sororities, but they participated in everything else and ~somehow~ managed just fine. Small groups would get paired together for Greek Week or switches.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by dnall

Yeah, you're going to be broke, which will very seriously limit what you can do, as well as your ability to grow in competition with other chapters (assuming they're actually 50-60). That's not necessarily deadly, but it is a significant challenge to overcome.

You sure you're actually in a fraternity?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by dnall

Yeah, you're going to be broke

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.

They're only going to be broke if they bite off more than they can chew.

For all your 20 years of working with fraternities, you would think you would have found out somewhere along the way that groups/systems come in all sizes and Greek life is not a homogenous thing.

Abitworried, please don't listen to ANYTHING this poster says.

[dnall]

There is a difference between financial difficulty and buying power.

Quick math lesson, X dollars times 20 guys is less than X dollars times 20+anything, especially X+50 which is where he said the other fraternities are.

At any location, dues rates are not just set randomly, they are normally within a range of what the market will bear. In other words, if you raise dues another $100/yr it would lose you more members than the increased income would replace.

As a social fraternity you need Y number (normally 14-20/yr) and Z quality (locally defined) of events to show your members their monies worth in social events. That costs X money. Your competitors for recruitment & social market share have presumably 200% more than you. That doesn't mean you fail, it means you have to be twice as good as them to stay competitive.

If they pay you 1000/yr dues, and 400 of it goes to social, you need to make that 400 seem like it was worth 1000 to the guy. If you don't do that, then you will have trouble retaining guys &/or collecting dues. That's not particularly hard to do, but it takes hard work and creativity. If you are a small chapter versus a couple other larger chapters, then you won't be able to out compete them financially in social events. You can only lean harder on the hard work/creativity and take fun classy guys.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by dnall

There is a difference between financial difficulty and buying power.

Quick math lesson, X dollars times 20 guys is less than X dollars times 20+anything, especially X+50 which is where he said the other fraternities are.

At any location, dues rates are not just set randomly, they are normally within a range of what the market will bear. In other words, if you raise dues another $100/yr it would lose you more members than the increased income would replace.

As a social fraternity you need Y number (normally 14-20/yr) and Z quality (locally defined) of events to show your members their monies worth in social events. That costs X money. Your competitors for recruitment & social market share have presumably 200% more than you. That doesn't mean you fail, it means you have to be twice as good as them to stay competitive.

If they pay you 1000/yr dues, and 400 of it goes to social, you need to make that 400 seem like it was worth 1000 to the guy. If you don't do that, then you will have trouble retaining guys &/or collecting dues. That's not particularly hard to do, but it takes hard work and creativity. If you are a small chapter versus a couple other larger chapters, then you won't be able to out compete them financially in social events. You can only lean harder on the hard work/creativity and take fun classy guys.

Is he serious?

[AOII Angel]

You seriously need to learn that your experience is NOT the only experience. Despite your insistence that your way is the only way that works, many smaller chapters happily function across the country. There is more than one successful model in the Greek world. The mega-chapter with the huge house isn't the only one.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by dnall

If you are a small chapter versus a couple other larger chapters, then you won't be able to out compete them financially in social events.

And here I thought it was about brotherhood. My mistake.

Once again, the values of your fraternity that you tout so much are completely at odds with what you're posting.

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by dnall

If you are a small chapter versus a couple other larger chapters, then you won't be able to out compete them financially in social events.

Maybe if you attend a giant state school where massive socials and parties are the norm. A small group of 10-15 might not be able to have the social calendar of the 10 other groups of 100 guys.

But groups at my school all had comparable social events and mixers, regardless of their size. Your school and your greek experience are not reflective of greek life as a whole, every where else.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Your school and your greek experience are not reflective of greek life as a whole, every where else.

Just in case dnall didn't see this.