High School GPA

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Over a third of students are getting through college without doing any critical thinking.

This means nothing in relation to what you said or what I said.

Academicians already know that the average college student is a "C" student. But, if it was just about choosing easy classes and easy majors, the average student would range from "B" to "A." Unless people are now claiming that college students are so lazy and/or dumb that they can still only get a "C" even in the "easiest" classes or majors.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Look, I'm not saying it's right, but the fact remains that many, many students get bachelor's degrees without doing any real college-level work. I have attended three schools of higher education at this point, and I am certain that every one of them had classes that required very little effort. I don't think that should be anyone's goal upon entering college, as students should learn as much as they possibly can in the time allotted, but some departments or professors just don't have the rigor of others.

Then don't appear as though you are recommending it. If there happen to be easier classes and easier majors at some schools, let students find that on their own; or let their academic advisers direct them accordingly.

But, since you posted that article about that study for which I'm already quite familiar, all studies have limitations and implications for future research:
General education requirements are designed to provide basic understanding but not to develop those skills to the maximum. Some basic skills would hopefully be developed before college so we need to critique the American education system, and family educational structures, before students get to college. College majors are designed to develop some skills but not others. This issue with college majors is one reason why some schools minimize the importance of majors/minors and even grades. When I talk to some biology majors across institutions, for example, they will not know many of the things that I consider basic because they are set on a specific concentration. I would have to teach some of them this information, even those who are getting ready to graduate. Even after teaching them, some of these students still get a "C," "D," or "F." However, I would never claim that biology is an easy major, in which some of its students can skate, just because some of these students would do poorly (and have a lower GPA) if their college knowledge was based on my areas of expertise and courses outside of their major.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Then don't appear as though you are recommending it. If there happen to be easier classes and easier majors at some schools, let students find that on their own; or let their academic advisers direct them accordingly.

I did not recommend it. I simply said it was possible. There is a difference between "you can do X" and "you should do X".

Every thread about grades turns into "OMG COLLEGE IS SO SCARY YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE IT!!!" Yes, you should get your act together if you were a C student in high school. Yes, you should think twice about pledging your first semester (and orgs should think twice about pledging you!) if don't have good time management skills. But the fact of the matter is that most students who did okay in high school will also do okay in college.

A lot of lazy students will get by, too. Universities/professors/departments are under too much pressure to keep students happy, and to keep them from failing out. It's unfortunate, definitely, but it does not change the facts.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I did not recommend it. I simply said it was possible. There is a difference between "you can do X" and "you should do X".

Your statement can not only be interpreted as a recommendation, it was based on an assumption that some majors are "easy." Which majors are the "easy" majors, pray tell.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

But the fact of the matter is that most students who did okay in high school will also do okay in college.

Okay in high school =/= Okay in college

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

A lot of lazy students will get by, too. Universities/professors/departments are under too much pressure to keep students happy, and to keep them from failing out. It's unfortunate, definitely, but it does not change the facts.

What are the "facts?"

Students are failing classes, failing out of college, losing their scholarships, and doing so poorly that they are ineligible for financial aid. I guess skating doesn't always work. The average university/professor/department is not letting students skate through with "easy" classes and "easy" majors to make students happy. There can be accreditation problems with having an average student that is a skater; and there are reputation issues when you release skaters to graduate schools and jobs.

This means that *drum roll* high school students and collegiates should not approach college with the expectation of skating and even the belief that skating is possible. They will look foolish and many of them will eventually get a rude awakening either before or after they graduate from college. That applies to those who successfully skate and those who failed miserably at skating.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Your statement can not only be interpreted as a recommendation, it was based on an assumption that some majors are "easy." Which majors are the "easy" majors, pray tell.

According to the article I linked, students learn very little in education, business, communications, and social work. According to this study, grade inflation is highest in the humanities.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Students are failing classes, failing out of college, losing their scholarships, and doing so poorly that they are ineligible for financial aid. I guess skating doesn't always work. The average university/professor/department is not letting students skate through with "easy" classes and "easy" majors to make students happy. There can be accreditation problems with having an average student that is a skater; and there are reputation issues when you release skaters to graduate schools and jobs.

The vast majority of students who leave college do so for financial reasons. Here's a study on that, too.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

According to the article I linked, students learn very little in ... business ...

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

According to the article I linked, students learn very little in education, business, communications, and social work. According to this study, grade inflation is highest in the humanities.

The vast majority of students who leave college do so for financial reasons. Here's a study on that, too.

And the point soars waaaaaaaay over your head.

Don't post studies to me. I know all about studies. I've read thousands of them, as well as conducted some. If this were a literature review you would fail at the ability to find the overall point and patterns across the studies that you have posted. Don't reach conclusions because you've read a study. Those studies are not designed to reach sweeping and permanent conclusions. They are designed as illustrations for which to make generalizations with consideration to limitations. They are based on qualitative and/or quantitative research and sampling. They include limitations and implications for future research for a reason.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Those studies are not designed to reach sweeping and permanent conclusions. They are designed as illustrations for which to make generalizations.

I see you are arguing with yourself in back-to-back sentences, so you clearly don't need me to hang around here anymore.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I see you are arguing with yourself in back-to-back sentences, so you clearly don't need me to hang around here anymore.

Do you not know the difference between "sweeping and permanent conclusions" and "illustrations for which to make generalizations?"

If that's the case, I don't need you here.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I see you are arguing with yourself in back-to-back sentences, so you clearly don't need me to hang around here anymore.

Flounce much?

[YesNoMaybe]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Your statement can not only be interpreted as a recommendation, it was based on an assumption that some majors are "easy." Which majors are the "easy" majors, pray tell.

I'm just gonna pop in to say I think some majors are considered "easy". Hell, I'm doing Communication Studies and I find myself bored in the classes because it's (so far) not a far step up from what I learned in high school. I don't do the readings, and I still have managed to pull in all A's or B+'s at worst, and I am not a natural Einstein. If I did the same strategy as an Engineering student, I wouldn't be in college.

There are majors that people can take to get through college easier, although I think 'skating' by is an overstatement because all that i know of require midterms and papers that ask of effort. I think it would be silly to take a major that you know you will succeed in without working hard because that mentality will transfer over to post-college with jobs. And GPA is becoming increasingly one of the most important things to getting a job anyway... so easy major or not, just graduating isn't going to cut it.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by YesNoMaybe

I'm just gonna pop in to say I think some majors are considered "easy". Hell, I'm doing Communication Studies and I find myself bored in the classes because it's (so far) not a far step up from what I learned in high school. I don't do the readings, and I still have managed to pull in all A's or B+'s at worst, and I am not a natural Einstein. If I did the same strategy as an Engineering student, I wouldn't be in college.

There are majors that people can take to get through college easier, although I think 'skating' by is an overstatement because all that i know of require midterms and papers that ask of effort. I think it would be silly to take a major that you know you will succeed in without working hard because that mentality will transfer over to post-college with jobs. And GPA is becoming increasingly one of the most important things to getting a job anyway... so easy major or not, just graduating isn't going to cut it.

What year are you? "Intro to Communications" =/= "Communication Theory"

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

What year are you? "Intro to Communications" =/= "Communication Theory"

This. First year biology major was cake for me, I went to a good high school and got good grades and had AP classes so Chem 110-115, Intro to Biology, etc. were all pretty straight forward reviews of what I knew already. Microbiology... yeah not so much.

My Psych degree was similar, I hated Psych 101 it was so utterly boring, but African-American Psych, Psychopharm, Physiological Pych, Developmental Psych, all were more complex and much 'harder.' Similarly the humanities requirements - 300 Level English was more interesting but much more 'difficult' than my 100 level comp class - and electives increased in difficulty.

Funny how it works like that, almost like those numbers imply some sort of.. increasing level of difficulty as the years go on. Not to mention that people are attracted to fields that they like and generally find those fields 'easier' if only because of their interest level.

[YesNoMaybe]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

What year are you? "Intro to Communications" =/= "Communication Theory"

I'm in the "Upper Level Classes" which is more of the academic research/theory based classes. I'm a sophomore, but taking classes that juniors take. Our program isn't noted for being one of the best at my school, or a top communication studies program, but I notice people seem to pick it when they "didn't know what major to pick so I just picked one" around their junior year.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by YesNoMaybe

I'm in the "Upper Level Classes" which is more of the academic research/theory based classes. I'm a sophomore, but taking classes that juniors take. Our program isn't noted for being one of the best at my school, or a top communication studies program, but I notice people seem to pick it when they "didn't know what major to pick so I just picked one" around their junior year.

That's a reflection of your school, not that major.

The Communications programs at schools like UT are not cakewalks, so encouraging people to use them as an "easy way out" is not a good idea.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I did not recommend it. I simply said it was possible. There is a difference between "you can do X" and "you should do X".

Every thread about grades turns into "OMG COLLEGE IS SO SCARY YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE IT!!!" Yes, you should get your act together if you were a C student in high school. Yes, you should think twice about pledging your first semester (and orgs should think twice about pledging you!) if don't have good time management skills. But the fact of the matter is that most students who did okay in high school will also do okay in college.

A lot of lazy students will get by, too. Universities/professors/departments are under too much pressure to keep students happy, and to keep them from failing out. It's unfortunate, definitely, but it does not change the facts.

Yep. I am familiar with quite a few marginal high school students who did fine in college. I certainly wouldn't claim it's the normal trend AND I think it's important to note that the quality of your high school and the level of your college play a huge role. If your high school typically prepares kids to succeed at highly selective universities, and you go to a less selective state school (what's the way to describe public schools that are a couple of steps down from the flagships?) , it might be a little easier to do as well or better as you did in high school.

But of course, your goal shouldn't be to just break even or come out ahead of your high school GPA. Your goal should be to actually learn.

http://www.olemiss.edu/admissions/fap.html
if you want to see what Ole Miss is looking at in its freshman class and where the dude with the 2.3 and 29 is in the data. ETA: whoops. He actually said 21 ACT, which is quite different. Dude, you should just plan to study all the time, maybe not even get the meal plan because you'll just eat out of the vending machines at the library where you should be studying whenever you aren't in class or sleeping.