Concerns for Boyfriend going through Recruitment

[YesNoMaybe]

Originally Posted by dnall

I get that you don't want him to get hazed, but I wasn't clear if you were saying he does or doesn't want it.

Anyway, it is not a topic of conversation in recruitment. Hazing is illegal and shouldn't happen, but it does. Most of it no big deal. Very little of it is out of control, but that does happen too.

I'm not saying it should be this way, but a guy that kept asking about hazing during rush would be seen as a bit of a wuss by my chapter. We went from hazing to not hazing when I was an active, but pledgeship was still no joke. It was a thousand percent all consuming commitment either way. The guy that's overly concerned with doing some pushups is the same guy that drops when he's busy as hell getting called every other night to DD.

I would say... I understand this is your bf & you're very concerned for him, but you have to let him do some things on his own. Just let him figure this out for himself.

If anything, tell him hazing doesn't necessarily lead to strong brotherhood. Stuff that's humiliating and stupid detracts from it. A constructive crucible-type experience, regardless if it's physical/mental or if it's a lot of very hard work with no spare time, all done side-by-side with pledge brothers does bring you closer together. You will never be able to tell that from the outside, even if you know in advance how hard an org hazes or if they don't at all.

I meant that he doesn't want to be hazed, either, I mean I just want him to be do what he wants without disrespecting himself, and that's his opinion of what that is. I don't feel he would be overly upset with minor hazing - like having a pledge nickname thats embarrassing or wearing dorky outfits to socials - but some of the stories he was told by his Mizzou friend were concerning. I don't want him to be dehumanized, which sounds overdramatic, but his friend got pee'd on for example for messing up the creed. I just didn't know if there was a way for him to figure out which chapters do consider hazing "earning it" and which don't so badly without him coming across, like you said, a wuss. I think he is open to local chapters (different than IFC??) and NPHC if it isn't like weird that he isn't racially affiliated with what they historically stand for.

*sigh* Perhaps he will have to just go with his gut because I suppose it's anti-masculine to sound off concerns, and I suppose they would lie anyway.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by YesNoMaybe

*sigh* Perhaps he will have to just go with his gut because I suppose it's anti-masculine to sound off concerns, and I suppose they would lie anyway.

You didn't need us after all.

[dnall]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

So what you're saying is, you were still hazing?

Hard work isn't hazing. The program I referred to was award winning & endorsed by both the university and nationals. It was very hard though, harder in many ways than hazing had been, but legal.

When my gf pledged her sorority she had: 1x 2hr chapter mtg, 1x1hr pledge meeting (about social & don't post stupid pics), and 4x random study hours per week. They did one 12hr sisterhood retreat that consisted of busing out to this place while everyone slept, 2hrs of ice breakers, 2hrs of sitting around, & bus back. Then she got initiated. She didn't know what it was about, or even all her pledge sister's names.

Most people would say that's a fairly unsuccessful member ed process. They could have initiated her on bid day, or not even bothered cause it didn't mean anything anyway.

I don't advocate hazing. It is the most effective training tool I know when done correctly and constructively (versus moronically - like pissing on people - gross). But, anything you leave 18-22yo kids in charge of with little supervision is going to eventually get out of control. And, it is illegal. The consequences of getting caught or something catastrophic happening are not worth the gain. There are other methods to run an equally hard and more constructive training program without breaking the law. They just require exponentially more work on the part of the chapter.

For the OP, I know it's frustrating, but a lot of this is unknowable going in the door.

Asking about is fine. Everyone has a standard answer regardless if they haze or not. It doesn't necessarily appear unmanly or would a fraternity even care about that. It's when you keep asking about it or make a big deal out of it that it becomes an issue.

When I give a bid, I'm looking for someone to charge the gates of hell with me no matter the costs (I know, overly dramatic). I'm looking for a guy that doesn't care if he's going to be hazed or not hazed, and ready to overcome whatever challenge emerges to be part of my fraternity.

If he's whining about hazing, I'd feel like he's saying "I'm that committed to your org, unless it gets hard & then I'm gone." Even if I know we don't haze, I'd still think he's the guy that's going to bail when pledgeship isn't all glitter & unicorns (joke w/ my gf, sorry, but you get the point). I'm going to worry that even if he makes it through pledgeship, he'd be the active that wouldn't be there for you or wouldn't live up to his responsibilities cause his heart's really not in it.

If we did haze, it'd be worse on him cause people would want to test him to alleviate those concerns.

NPHC or a local isn't an escape either. There's hazing there too. It's against the rules and the law everywhere and no one is truly immune to it.

Just like you would tell a girl going through sorority rush, he needs to just focus on the groups he sees and find the one that is the best fit for him & that feels the same way about him. Everything else will take care of itself.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by dnall

Hard work isn't hazing. The program I referred to was award winning & endorsed by both the university and nationals. It was very hard though, harder in many ways than hazing had been, but legal.

When my gf pledged her sorority she had: 1x 2hr chapter mtg, 1x1hr pledge meeting (about social & don't post stupid pics), and 4x random study hours per week. They did one 12hr sisterhood retreat that consisted of busing out to this place while everyone slept, 2hrs of ice breakers, 2hrs of sitting around, & bus back. Then she got initiated. She didn't know what it was about, or even all her pledge sister's names.

Most people would say that's a fairly unsuccessful member ed process. They could have initiated her on bid day, or not even bothered cause it didn't mean anything anyway.

I don't advocate hazing. It is the most effective training tool I know when done correctly and constructively (versus moronically - like pissing on people - gross). But, anything you leave 18-22yo kids in charge of with little supervision is going to eventually get out of control. And, it is illegal. The consequences of getting caught or something catastrophic happening are not worth the gain. There are other methods to run an equally hard and more constructive training program without breaking the law. They just require exponentially more work on the part of the chapter.

For the OP, I know it's frustrating, but a lot of this is unknowable going in the door.

Asking about is fine. Everyone has a standard answer regardless if they haze or not. It doesn't necessarily appear unmanly or would a fraternity even care about that. It's when you keep asking about it or make a big deal out of it that it becomes an issue.

When I give a bid, I'm looking for someone to charge the gates of hell with me no matter the costs (I know, overly dramatic). I'm looking for a guy that doesn't care if he's going to be hazed or not hazed, and ready to overcome whatever challenge emerges to be part of my fraternity.

If he's whining about hazing, I'd feel like he's saying "I'm that committed to your org, unless it gets hard & then I'm gone." Even if I know we don't haze, I'd still think he's the guy that's going to bail when pledgeship isn't all glitter & unicorns (joke w/ my gf, sorry, but you get the point). I'm going to worry that even if he makes it through pledgeship, he'd be the active that wouldn't be there for you or wouldn't live up to his responsibilities cause his heart's really not in it.

If we did haze, it'd be worse on him cause people would want to test him to alleviate those concerns.

NPHC or a local isn't an escape either. There's hazing there too. It's against the rules and the law everywhere and no one is truly immune to it.

Just like you would tell a girl going through sorority rush, he needs to just focus on the groups he sees and find the one that is the best fit for him & that feels the same way about him. Everything else will take care of itself.

You know, one of the signs of lying is being overly verbose.

[excelblue]

In my opinion, someone who allows hazing to occur is also someone with a weak spine who fails to stand up to principles.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by excelblue

In my opinion, someone who allows hazing to occur is also someone with a weak spine who fails to stand up to principles.

So you've been in that position before?

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

You know, one of the signs of lying is being overly verbose.

You mean, the lady doth protest too much?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

You know, one of the signs of lying is being overly verbose.

Blame it on ADD or whatever, but I still to this day haven't been able to make it past about the 3rd sentence of any of his posts.

I don't think I'm missing much.