Protests In Wisconsin

[ZZ-kai-]

I am not sure why to be exactly honest with you. One could state that it's because the FF, ST and Police unions were heavy contributors to the Republican (Walkers) campaign. Another argument I heard was that they were left alone due to the fact that they are emergency personel and that a strike from those unions would literally put 'the public' at risk.

Here are some interesting campaign donations that I found perculiar:

MADISON, Wisc. — As the Tea Party movement and union bosses prepare to clash in Wisconsin, it is worthwhile to keep in mind that many millions of dollars of union members’ dues have been spent to fuel the Democratic Party in past elections. Here’s a breakdown of what some of the top unions donated to the Democratic Party in the 2008 and 2010 election cycles:

-The AFL-CIO, whose president Richard Trumka is orchestrating much of the protests in Madison this week, donated $1.2 million to Democrats in 2008 and $900,000 in 2010.
-The American Federation of State, County and Municipal employees donated $2.6 million to the Democrats in 2008 and another $2.6 million in 2010.
-The National Education Association donated $2.3 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.2 million in 2010.
-The Teamsters union donated $2.4 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.3 million in 2010.
-The SEIU donated $2.6 million to Democrats in 2008 and $1.7 million in 2010.
-The Carpenters and Joiners union donated $2 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.1 million 2010.
-The Laborers union donated $2.6 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.2 million in 2010.
-The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers donated $3.8 million to Democrats in 2008 and $3.2 million in 2010.
-The American Federation of Teachers donated $2.8 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.7 million in 2010.
-The Machinists and Aerospace union donated $2.5 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.1 million in 2010.
-The Communication Workers of America, which includes employees from several television and radio stations and other publishing platforms, donated $2.2 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.1 million in 2010.
-The United Autoworkers union (UAW) donated $2.1 million to Democrats in 2008 and $1.5 million in 2010.
-The United Food and Commercial Workers union (UFCW) donated $2.1 million to Democrats in 2008 and $1.9 million in 2010.

Most unions gave a negligible amount, if anything at all, to the Republican Party over the past two election cycles.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/19/un...y-financially/

[ZZ-kai-]

PS, I'm trying to find out the numbers on what the FF, ST and Police unions contributed to Walkers campaign - I did see them once, just can't find them...

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

I am not sure why to be exactly honest with you. One could state that it's because the FF, ST and Police unions were heavy contributors to the Republican (Walkers) campaign. Another argument I heard was that they were left alone due to the fact that they are emergency personel and that a strike from those unions would literally put 'the public' at risk.

Here's the article about the firefighters' union:
Wisconsin Firefighters: We'll Give Up Pay to Save Collective Bargaining

"The reason that we are here is because it's important that labor sticks together. There was a message from the governor's office to conquer and divide...collective bargaining is not just for us, police and fire, it's good for all involved. It's a middle-class upbringing."

"Collective bargaining is not about union rights; it's about rights of workers...We ask Gov. Walker to come back and negotiate with the people, negotiatie with the state workers' unions, and get things worked out, as opposed to just putting out this bill and we don't hear from him again."

"Us as firefighters, we have been exempted from this bill...There's a 5.8 percent pay into the pension, there's a 12.4 percent pay into the health care premium benefits...For the betterment of the government, for the betterment of the state, we don't mind helping to pay for that. We don't want to price ourselves out of a job. Ever. What we want to do is have a fair and equitable treatment among our members."

Personally I don't think unions are inherently bad. I think without them, or without the threat of them, corporations would take advantage of a glut in the labor market by paying unreasonably low wages that people will feel compelled to take. I don't see things returning to the 1910 status quo, but it wouldn't have been a positive thing either. That said, unions aren't always good either, and if they DO price themselves out of a job others should be hired - at reasonable rates - to do the work. I don't 'get' when unions protest the construction of buildings that use non-union labor, if their work is superior it should pay for itself, but for all I know those buildings hired contractors who hired and exploited workers to do shoddy work.

Basically, I don't think the fiscal cuts are unreasonable, but I think the 'union-busting' measures are a purely political move and a pretty bad one.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

PS, I'm trying to find out the numbers on what the FF, ST and Police unions contributed to Walkers campaign - I did see them once, just can't find them...

I want to say I an article that said that actually the state employees endorsed Walker, but the Police and Troopers unions didn't. However it was suggested that he had a lot more local support from the exempted unions even if the overall organizations didn't endorse him.

Either way, it's shady and if his argument is truly "its' about the money" they should have been included. The firefighters I know wouldn't let a building burn because of a strike, that's just the antithesis of their jobs. If he knew that workers would strike because of the measures perhaps he should have negotiated longer - last article I read indicated they were negotiating when he pulled the rug out and put this bill forward, I don't know what was on the table then though.

[ZZ-kai-]

IMO, endorsements are only as good as the schmuck on top of said unions saying that. The true endorsement is when the people vote - unions can't vote and therefore their 'endoresement' means jack.

I think you'd be surprised of who doesn't show up to work or would protest (meaning: police, fire, troopers) if this were on them too. Scabs, in all industries/professions, are not treated kindly. Yet another reason to get rid of unions, all they do is get themselves to turn on each other.

I'm having a hard time finding the donor list for the unions (Police, ST, FF)

[ZZ-kai-]

PS, if/when this bill passes, the union will not be busted. It will still exist. What I find incredibly interesting is the fact that this can happen:

The proposed bill weakens union organizations by no longer allowing dues to be deducted from employee paychecks and by allowing employees to opt out of dues payments all together.

So, we'll see if the Union MEMBERS themselves put the union out of business?!?!?

http://www.bargainingforbenefits.com...t-repair-bill/

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

IMO, endorsements are only as good as the schmuck on top of said unions saying that. The true endorsement is when the people vote - unions can't vote and therefore their 'endoresement' means jack.

Right hence the difference between endorsement and local support.

I think you'd be surprised of who doesn't show up to work or would protest (meaning: police, fire, troopers) if this were on them too. Scabs, in all industries/professions, are not treated kindly. Yet another reason to get rid of unions, all they do is get themselves to turn on each other.

I can only speak for firefighters due to friends of mine, but while they would probably strike if necessary I don't think it would be a 'full' strike. It might run similarly to the way short-staffed depts near me run, certain stations closed on certain days, but coverage available in case of emergency.

But I don't think that adds up to "All unions bad."

I'm having a hard time finding the donor list for the unions (Police, ST, FF)

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

PS, if/when this bill passes, the union will not be busted. It will still exist. What I find incredibly interesting is the fact that this can happen:



So, we'll see if the Union MEMBERS themselves put the union out of business?!?!?

http://www.bargainingforbenefits.com...t-repair-bill/

Reducing/removing collective bargaining rights (for everything but wages I believe) is all but busting a union.

[KSig RC]

It's nearly impossible to reconcile traditionally Conservative beliefs like individual responsibility, enhanced rights for the people rather than government, and market-based solutions to economic issues with reducing the ability of state employees to bargain collectively.

[ZZ-kai-]

Color it how you want, the Union isn't being busted. Is it being close to mortally wounded, yes, and I fully support that. All 175,000 state employees can terminate their contract, re-apply/re-hire and negotiate all of their own salaries, PTO, raises/bonuses...etc. for all I care. Actually, I'd prefer that.

Remember one of those guys who punked out for IL, State Rep Gordon Hintz, you know, this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0BG973hQtc

Well, he's a sleeze-ball. Only a matter of time before he's shown the door.

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/artic...xt%7CFRONTPAGE

State Rep. Gordon Hintz was issued a municipal citation in Appleton earlier this month for violation of a city sexual misconduct ordinance.

Appleton police issued the citation Feb. 10 in conjunction with an ongoing investigation of Heavenly Touch Massage Parlor, , 342 W. Wisconsin Ave., in Appleton.


Police searched the business and a nearby residence Jan. 31, after ivestigators had staked out the properties for several days after receiving a tip.


The raid netted six arrests, and police seized a vehicle and assets associated with the enterprise.


No additional details about the incident were available Monday morning.


The ordinance under which Hintz, 37, was charged prohibits paying or receiving “a fee, directly or indirectly, or to offer or ask for anything of value, for touching or offering to touch the sexual parts of another.”


Hintz was not immediately available for comment.


According to online court records, Hintz posted a $2,667.50 bond.


He is scheduled to appear before an Outagamie County court commissioner on April 27.


The Northwestern will update this story as more information becomes available.

[Drolefille]

That's all nice, seems like an asshole. It is, however, irrelevant to the conversation.

ETA: He doesn't even sound like an asshole, he sounds like a guy who goes to a massage parlor that gives happy endings.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

Color it how you want, the Union isn't being busted. Is it being close to mortally wounded, yes, and I fully support that. All 175,000 state employees can terminate their contract, re-apply/re-hire and negotiate all of their own salaries, PTO, raises/bonuses...etc. for all I care. Actually, I'd prefer that.

It would appear you're the one doing the coloring - the difference between "busted" and "mortally wounded" is laughably inconsequential, and the fact that it isn't applied to all government employees equally is also pretty piss poor.

Want to run the government more like a business? Fine. That means winning battles with unions in the boardroom, and not on the floor of the legislature. Small government indeed.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

He caused this all by himself? He has been in office 6 weeks.

RIGHT?

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

Color it how you want, the Union isn't being busted. Is it being close to mortally wounded, yes, and I fully support that. All 175,000 state employees can terminate their contract, re-apply/re-hire and negotiate all of their own salaries, PTO, raises/bonuses...etc. for all I care. Actually, I'd prefer that.

Remember one of those guys who punked out for IL, State Rep Gordon Hintz, you know, this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0BG973hQtc

Well, he's a sleeze-ball. Only a matter of time before he's shown the door.

You know he's in the Assembly, right? And that it's the Senators who are in IL? And I'm assuming you understand the difference?

So, what are you talking about when you say he "punked out for IL"?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I want to say I an article that said that actually the state employees endorsed Walker, but the Police and Troopers unions didn't. However it was suggested that he had a lot more local support from the exempted unions even if the overall organizations didn't endorse him.

Either way, it's shady and if his argument is truly "its' about the money" they should have been included. The firefighters I know wouldn't let a building burn because of a strike, that's just the antithesis of their jobs. If he knew that workers would strike because of the measures perhaps he should have negotiated longer - last article I read indicated they were negotiating when he pulled the rug out and put this bill forward, I don't know what was on the table then though.

AFAIK most, if not all, unionized emergency responders aren't allowed to strike.