Smoking In-House

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by SOM

AGDee-I am not sure if I am following or understanding your posting.
Most, if not all, offices buildings I have either worked or walked into have "No-Smoking" signs posted.

NYC has a major non-smoklng policy. As do other cities.

My guestions was, and is, asking if there are any bans or controls on smoking in dorms or any living quarters. Or school related buildings for that matter.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Her posting means that no place has said "Smoking is not allowed indoors." That would mean no one could smoke in their own home. What many places have done is say something like "Smoking is not allowed in a public building" or "This is a smoke-free building." Banning smoking in public buildings =/= banning smoking "indoors."

Thank you MC

[SOM]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Thank you MC

I have learned, the hard way, that one should not make general sweeping comments.
In the past few months the news carried stories from NYC that laws were being looked at in controlling out-door smoking in public areas.
And that is the only story I remember-there could be more.

And the point of my questions was not really totally based on heath issues.
I was think more along the lines of public safety and risk management. There have been a rash of fires in dorms and other campus/student housing units caused by smoking and open flames.

And that would be a whole separate issue from private housing or homes.

We have seen, all too may times, that rules, policies, and laws are very different between jurisdictions.

So it would be well worth a look if one is reviewing polices.

[33girl]

Yeah, "ventilation system" was probably not what I meant. What I meant was "look at why the smoke that's contained to one room with a heavy door is filtering into the other rooms." But that was really long to say.

And yes, there are some places (depending on where the house is) where the townies will call the cops if a fraternity guy farts too loud. The last thing you want is people complaining of butts in their yard - the fraternity will get the blame even if it wasn't them doing it. The townie kids are well aware of this and take advantage of it.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yeah, "ventilation system" was probably not what I meant. What I meant was "look at why the smoke that's contained to one room with a heavy door is filtering into the other rooms." But that was really long to say.

If you're a non-smoker, there probably is nothing that can be done that you won't smell the smoke throughout the house. Especially since it's in the basement and probably seeps up through the whole house that probably has air ducts going throughout. I don't know if smokers don't notice, but non-smokers do. Having to smoke outside the house or apartment or building is a pretty common occurrence and I suspect this house is more unusual than not and the smokers (as well as the "I only smoke when I drink"-ers will have to suck it up and go outside in the cold to smoke eventually.

Or you know, not smoke, but that's another issue.

[33girl]

If it's between the house being smelly and losing a charter or harassment from the cops because people are outside...I'll take a smelly house. I know all the Rob Reiners out there are saying "just quit" but that's really not the issue. This is something that involves guests as well as fraternity members.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If it's between the house being smelly and losing a charter or harassment from the cops because people are outside...I'll take a smelly house. I know all the Rob Reiners out there are saying "just quit" but that's really not the issue. This is something that involves guests as well as fraternity members.

I don't believe that they're going to lose their charter for smoking outside. Nor do I suspect that if we're really talking 5 people outside smoking at a time that the cops are really getting called. Plenty of people have mentioned alternatives. And for non-smokers, the smelly house isn't generally worth it.

Their house smells (per the OP) and people are choosing not to come to the house/not join the fraternity because of it. They smoke outside the rest of the year. It's time to suck it up and go out in the cold.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I don't believe that they're going to lose their charter for smoking outside. Nor do I suspect that if we're really talking 5 people outside smoking at a time that the cops are really getting called.

Sorry you don't believe that things like that actually happen. THEY DO.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If you're a non-smoker, there probably is nothing that can be done that you won't smell the smoke throughout the house. Especially since it's in the basement and probably seeps up through the whole house that probably has air ducts going throughout. I don't know if smokers don't notice, but non-smokers do. Having to smoke outside the house or apartment or building is a pretty common occurrence and I suspect this house is more unusual than not and the smokers (as well as the "I only smoke when I drink"-ers will have to suck it up and go outside in the cold to smoke eventually.

Or you know, not smoke, but that's another issue.

Agree with all of this, though for the record some smokers do notice. I do. Stale smoke is way worse than just smelling a cigarette, and it's impossible to get rid of totally. I do not often smoke in my car and roll the windows down totally when I do and it still reeks...and will forever. I imagine a closed off basement full of smokers would be totally rancid. I don't have a single friend that allows cigarette smoking in house and neither do the fraternities here.

I've gotten into this debate before with other smokers, but I've been smoking for about 3 years now...and going 4 or so hours without one is just not that big of a deal. When I visit my parents I do not smoke at all...which sometimes means a week. No big. I've been told for some people it's torture. Fine. I believe it is for some people, but I'm willing to bet there are just as many smokers like myself out there...as well as the smoke-when-drink crowd that aren't actually addicted at all. Go outside. If traffic in and out is that big of a deal, they can smoke before arriving and light up as soon as they leave. I'm betting the smell of stale cigarette smoke over the years would end up causing way more problems than smokers outside.

Originally Posted by dnall

All these tangent issues aside...

It's a very legitimate issue that they can't have a congregation of people outside during a party. It attracts attention. An open door lets out noise. Constant in/out traffic indicates an uncontrolled entrance, which (in my state) means law enforcement can come in without probable cause.

Having parties shut down for noise &/or people getting providing/MIP tickets is worse than dealing with a smell issue. That said, the smell issue has become a problem too, so they have to deal with it now.

I don't know the facility we're talking about here, so it's hard to find the easy solution that probably exists.

I would not be looking at filtered ventilation systems. They are expensive and require too much maintenance.

I'd try to figure something else out that eliminates the other issues with people smoking outside. For instance, is there something like a back porch I could tarp off & put a portable heater in during events (a lot of bars/restaurants do this with their patio areas when temps dip and they want to keep use of the space). If that's workable, I'd consider walling it in later on. If not, I could inexpensively add a covered area like that without a lot of hassle.

That may not be the best solution for this specific property, but I think it's headed in the right direction. We're doing something we don't like because of XYZ. So, we just need to mitigate XYZ so those factors become the lesser of the two evils. Banning or not banning smoking doesn't seem to solve the problem.

The smell issue will only get worse, and no amount of Stanley Steamer visits will completely remove it.

But your suggestions are good. I know the porch is one area a fraternity house here uses for smokers, and it's tarped off during especially cold party nights.

Another solution is to post a brother at the door where the smokers go out. Allow three to five out at a time. If the party is so big that this isn't practical, tell people they can't smoke. I doubt you're going to have many smokers so vehement about their rights that they leave. They should be used to it...you can't smoke in just about any restaurant, commercial building, or home now anyway.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

They should be used to it...you can't smoke in just about any restaurant, commercial building, or home now anyway.

There is no law about smoking in "homes" - if people who smoke choose to make themselves unwelcome in their own houses and exile themselves outside to smoke, that's their stupid business.

The tarp/space heater is an awesome idea and one many restaurants around here are using. It's no coincidence that many of the most vehement anti-smokers (I mean like famous people) are from warmer states where going outside is not anything of an issue.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There is no law about smoking in "homes" - if people who smoke choose to make themselves unwelcome in their own houses and exile themselves outside to smoke, that's their stupid business.

The tarp/space heater is an awesome idea and one many restaurants around here are using. It's no coincidence that many of the most vehement anti-smokers (I mean like famous people) are from warmer states where going outside is not anything of an issue.

If homes includes apartments though, many apartments/townhomes/etc are smoke free. Most places that college students CAN live are smoke free.

And I suspect that the fact that the "famous people" don't smoke and thus don't go outside has more of an effect than their location. Never mind that more "famous people" live in places like California in the first place. Second hand smoke sucks, and smelling smoke in your home when you're not a smoker sucks too.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There is no law about smoking in "homes" - if people who smoke choose to make themselves unwelcome in their own houses and exile themselves outside to smoke, that's their stupid business.

The tarp/space heater is an awesome idea and one many restaurants around here are using. It's no coincidence that many of the most vehement anti-smokers (I mean like famous people) are from warmer states where going outside is not anything of an issue.

No one said anything about laws. The fact is, however, most rental properties are smoke free and most people I know that don't rent still smoke outside. You can end up spending a fortune trying to get the smell out when you go to sell it, and you probably won't be successful in getting rid of it entirely. Were my car worth anything I would never have smoked in it in the first place. Even some smokers might think it stinks too bad.

Like I said, I'm a smoker, and I don't understand what the big deal is. It's not worth ruining a dwelling and making anyone who doesn't smoke (which is the majority) uncomfortable when the solution is to just smoke outside. I just don't get it. And since there are ways to handle the crowd outside, it seems to be the solution.

[dnall]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

...your suggestions are good. I know the porch is one area a fraternity house here uses for smokers, and it's tarped off during especially cold party nights.

Another solution is to post a brother at the door where the smokers go out. Allow three to five out at a time. If the party is so big that this isn't practical, tell people they can't smoke. I doubt you're going to have many smokers so vehement about their rights that they leave. They should be used to it...you can't smoke in just about any restaurant, commercial building, or home now anyway.

Personally, I'd transfer to a school where it never gets that cold, but to each their own.

I can't speak for the given campus, I don't even know what school we're talking about, not that it matters. However, where I'm from avg parties are 3-500, small is 100 & big is 1000-1500. You can tell people not to smoke, but they'll just go to someone else's party instead.

You really have to balance and mitigate to appeal to your guests, or they won't show up. At that point, it doesn't matter what the house smells like cause you're not going to survive anyway.

[33girl]

I just tried to imagine the perfume mashup of 1000-1500 people, guys and girls, not all of whom have a good grasp on the concept of "too much." I think I'll take smoke any time...