Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford of Southern Arizona Shot At Constituent Event

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Very few people succeed with an insanity defense. Mental illness is not the same as legal insanity either. It is actually possible to be mentally ill and legally sane. They are not the same concept. I'm not a psychiatrist, but many of his rants are delusional with anti-government fixations. This is very suspicious for paranoid schizophrenia. Schizophrenics very rarely are violent, but like normal people, they can be.

Also, they have to be considered to have a total break from reality during the entire time they plan and carry out the attacks. Something nearly impossible to prove if planning actually took place. NGRI (Not Guilty for Reasons of Insanity) is also different from being unfit to stand trial. NGRI carries serious consequences with it when serious offenses are involved. Said person will be put in a locked down psych facility for 10-20 years, at least, and will have mandated treatment following release until such time as they're no longer dangerous. I've worked with someone who killed his father because he thought his father was trying to kill him. He was a schizophrenic in a psychotic break. He never broke again since, and his medication has all of his symptoms under control. He is still monitored but you'd never know about his past and he has had to deal with the grief and loss and so has his family. It's not a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

Unfit to stand trial usually means they get treated until they ARE fit and then are required to stand trial as anyone else. They can still try an NGRI affirmative defense.

Originally Posted by AzTheta

Having evaluated people who suffer from a variety of emotional disturbances and mental illnesses, I will say that their motives are seldom if ever understandable through the filters that most of us use and are comfortable with. Thought disorders are baffling, and paranoia is not something that can be reasoned with. Applying the standard of "fully aware of what one is doing" is challenging, even for the experts.

Indeed, and frequently an individual who tries to falsely claim NGRI has shown multiple examples of understanding the consequences of their actions throughout the time they were considering or planning the crime. To claim that only when they had the crime did they suffer a break from reality doesn't sell well. There are probably more people who are in prison who were not responsible for their crimes than people who have "gotten off" improperly.

Originally Posted by Chicago88

I'm glad few people get away with it because I feel that people tend to use it as an easy way out. There's an extremely fine line between any mental disorder. Youre absolutely correct AZTheta, I'm no psychologist, nor am I knowledgeable on these topics. I can only imagine the intricate, complex, and difficult concept to understand.

This is kind of like how one woman who lies about rape makes 2000 women not get believed. One person gets attention for claiming NGRI and then people think it's all bullshit. It's not an easy out, but public perception makes it that way.
While mental disorders can have fine lines, the line that lets you get away with murder, while it can be blurry it is a very THICK line.

[Drolefille]

With regards to all the political rhetoric, I feel like this said it best:

BOTTOM LINE: We can't solely blame heated political rhetoric for this senseless tragedy anymore than we can blame video games and "R" rated movies. We have a culture that not only condones, but often celebrates violence. Dozens -- or more -- people will be shot and killed today in cities across this country. We won't give those slain Americans nearly as much attention as they deserve.

That said the debate about what happened in Tucson has to go beyond the political and into the cultural. The fact that a nine year old girl who dreamed of being involved in public service was murdered should lead every parent, teacher and community leader to take a look at the kinds of language and images that are rife in our culture. This is a teachable moment and one in which everyone, not just political figures, need to take part.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/201...-rhetoric.html

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Indeed, and frequently an individual who tries to falsely claim NGRI has shown multiple examples of understanding the consequences of their actions throughout the time they were considering or planning the crime. To claim that only when they had the crime did they suffer a break from reality doesn't sell well.

There's actually a very interesting connection between this and attempts to ascribe political "motive" (or persuasion, perhaps more specifically) to the attacker - from a jury science standpoint, one of the main difficulties of an insanity defense is overcoming the Fundamental Attribution Error, the desire to believe actions reflect a person's character or internal characteristics by ignoring temporal or external factors.

The FAE is also used (and often abused) in the political arena as well, and we naturally rely on it in particularly difficult times or with regard to acts we really can't comprehend or understand. It's one of the easiest root causes of jumping to a conclusion (and a very natural, unavoidable one at that).

[sceniczip]

A close family friend had a TBI and the road to recovery was long and slow and he never did fully recover He was in a coma for about a month or so, maybe a bit less. He was at Metro, which has an excellent neuro area around here. He never regained full mental capacities, especially in math skills. He never could finish college because of it. He's able to lead an almost completely normal life though.

A well known dressage rider suffered a TBI. She fell off a horse and wasn't wearing a helmet. (Not saying a helmet would have definitively prevented any injury though!) She's on the road to recovery now and though she is starting back with some theraputic riding, it is still too soon to tell how much she will be able to do. It's such a shame. Shameless plug: Please wear a properly fitted helmet! It may not prevent an injury but it's better than nothing!

All my prayers are with the families of the victims.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by sceniczip

A close family friend had a TBI and the road to recovery was long and slow and he never did fully recover He was in a coma for about a month or so, maybe a bit less. He was at Metro, which has an excellent neuro area around here. He never regained full mental capacities, especially in math skills. He never could finish college because of it. He's able to lead an almost completely normal life though.

A well known dressage rider suffered a TBI. She fell off a horse and wasn't wearing a helmet. (Not saying a helmet would have definitively prevented any injury though!) She's on the road to recovery now and though she is starting back with some theraputic riding, it is still too soon to tell how much she will be able to do. It's such a shame. Shameless plug: Please wear a properly fitted helmet! It may not prevent an injury but it's better than nothing!

All my prayers are with the families of the victims.

Of course, blunt and penetrating brain injury are very different creatures. Her main problem, other than the risk of secondary brain injury, is the direct trauma to her speech center. There is a long road ahead for Rep. Giffords recovery, and it will be a long while before we know what permanent neuro deficits she sustained in this assault. For now, she is lucky to be alive with the ability to process simple commands. It will be interesting to see what they report when she is extubated.

[sceniczip]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Of course, blunt and penetrating brain injury are very different creatures. Her main problem, other than the risk of secondary brain injury, is the direct trauma to her speech center. There is a long road ahead for Rep. Giffords recovery, and it will be a long while before we know what permanent neuro deficits she sustained in this assault. For now, she is lucky to be alive with the ability to process simple commands. It will be interesting to see what they report when she is extubated.

Oh yes wasn't saying they were even remotely the same! Just wanted to agree that it's still a long road even though she is able to respond to simple commands. One of the news briefs I heard made it out to be like she would be just because she could raise a finger It's good but it's by no means a full recovery. The brain is a very interesting thing though. I always said if I had gone into medicine I would have wanted to do neuro.