Dems: GOP rollback of HCR would increase the deficit.

[AOII Angel]

Not having a fix to healthcare obviously does cost us all. Who do you think pays for all the free care that is provided to people right now in ERs all across America? ERs cannot turn away anyone, no matter what their insurance status. When hospitals can't collect from patients' without insurance and no ability to pay (including illegal immigrants that everyone was so interested to make sure were not included in any healthcare plan, btw) they pass that cost on to the rest of us through increased fees to self-pay patients and to health insurance companies. This means that health insurance companies then increase their rates. There is no free lunch. And you don't even get good care at the ER since there is not continuity of care and many ER facilities are overrun with patients meaning they have excessively long waits, and patient care suffers.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Not having a fix to healthcare obviously does cost us all. Who do you think pays for all the free care that is provided to people right now in ERs all across America? ERs cannot turn away anyone, no matter what their insurance status. When hospitals can't collect from patients' without insurance and no ability to pay (including illegal immigrants that everyone was so interested to make sure were not included in any healthcare plan, btw) they pass that cost on to the rest of us through increased fees to self-pay patients and to health insurance companies. This means that health insurance companies then increase their rates. There is no free lunch.

You're right, there is no free lunch( unless of course you're one of the people mentioned who don't pay for their healthcare). When ObamaCare goes into full effect I'll be subsidizing the people who can't afford to buy their own insurance thru higher premiums and potentially higher taxes. If ObamaCare is repealed, I'll still be subsidizing the un-insured via higher insurances premiums and higher medical costs. To be honest, it kind of makes me apathetic to whole issue.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

You're right, there is no free lunch( unless of course you're one of the people mentioned who don't pay for their healthcare). When ObamaCare goes into full effect I'll be subsidizing the people who can't afford to buy their own insurance thru higher premiums and potentially higher taxes. If ObamaCare is repealed, I'll still be subsidizing the un-insured via higher insurances premiums and higher medical costs. To be honest, it kind of makes me apathetic to whole issue.

Actually, it would be better to have people insured going to see primary care providers who can take care of problems before they get out of control rather than to provide emergency-only medicine as the alternative. ER visits are the most expensive type of medical care we have in our system. It is much more expensive than providing everyone with standard of care preventative care because we don't then bill them by the minute. The two options are not equivalent even though you are still paying for the same people.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Not having a fix to healthcare obviously does cost us all. Who do you think pays for all the free care that is provided to people right now in ERs all across America? ERs cannot turn away anyone, no matter what their insurance status. When hospitals can't collect from patients' without insurance and no ability to pay (including illegal immigrants that everyone was so interested to make sure were not included in any healthcare plan, btw) they pass that cost on to the rest of us through increased fees to self-pay patients and to health insurance companies. This means that health insurance companies then increase their rates. There is no free lunch. And you don't even get good care at the ER since there is not continuity of care and many ER facilities are overrun with patients meaning they have excessively long waits, and patient care suffers.

AMEN!!! Great post

What most people don't realize is we are already paying for much of the healthcare for uninsured people!

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by *winter*

AMEN!!! Great post

What most people don't realize is we are already paying for much of the healthcare for uninsured people!

I disagree

I think a lot of people realize that we are covering the uninsured and its because of that fact they wonder, "what's the point?". Why reconstruct the healthcare industry when something like opening up eligibility to Medicare would seem like a better solution to dealing with the uninsured. We also can't assume that people WILL take preventative care or see a primary care physician (do they still exist?) VS a hospital or an urgent care if they have any health issues. I'm insured, but I haven't been to an actual Dr.s office in YEARS, but I have been to the hospital/urgent care several times.

[*winter*]

I love the Urgent Care places too!

Hopefully if they are able to offer people lower cost private insurance plans, and large employers have to expand their benefits...more people will have privatized heathcare, as opposed to none or Medicaid. An HMO is totally different than free services because people will have to adhere to the rules of an insurance plan. Which means use your benefits wisely or else be charged for what you've used. But maybe I'm an optomist, who knows?

Either way, I think reform is inevitable.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I disagree

I think a lot of people realize that we are covering the uninsured and its because of that fact they wonder, "what's the point?". Why reconstruct the healthcare industry when something like opening up eligibility to Medicare would seem like a better solution to dealing with the uninsured. We also can't assume that people WILL take preventative care or see a primary care physician (do they still exist?) VS a hospital or an urgent care if they have any health issues. I'm insured, but I haven't been to an actual Dr.s office in YEARS, but I have been to the hospital/urgent care several times.

Why do you do that? Probably because you are young and healthy. Many people who aren't insured would actually like to go to a regular doctor because they aren't so young and healthy and would actually benefit from preventative care. For a lot of problems, they get little help from the ER. High blood pressure, diabetes, etc are poorly controlled in an ER management setting, and the end result is renal failure needing dialysis, heart attacks, heart failure and strokes. Many of these people end up costing us more in disability payments when they can't work because they are completely decompensated by their congestive heart failure, etc. This is one example of why ER care is inappropriate for anything other than EMERGENCIES. It also prevents people who really need emergency care from getting prompt care if the waiting room is full of people who need a prescription refill or treatment for an ingrown toenail or a runny nose or a headache last week that went away after ten minutes (don't laugh, it happens.) These people get seen for 10x the cost of the same visit at a primary care physicians office (and yes, these guys still exist-- some of them are actually struggling to find patients in this economy.)

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I disagree

I think a lot of people realize that we are covering the uninsured and its because of that fact they wonder, "what's the point?". Why reconstruct the healthcare industry when something like opening up eligibility to Medicare would seem like a better solution to dealing with the uninsured. We also can't assume that people WILL take preventative care or see a primary care physician (do they still exist?) VS a hospital or an urgent care if they have any health issues. I'm insured, but I haven't been to an actual Dr.s office in YEARS, but I have been to the hospital/urgent care several times.

If you had my insurance, you would be required to see your primary care doctor at least once per year and get specific tests done annually or else you'd have a huge annual deductible and extremely high co-pays. You would re-think that hospital/urgent care visit because the co-pay is 5 times as much as going to your primary care.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AGDee

If you had my insurance, you would be required to see your primary care doctor at least once per year and get specific tests done annually or else you'd have a huge annual deductible and extremely high co-pays. You would re-think that hospital/urgent care visit because the co-pay is 5 times as much as going to your primary care.

Your insurance company is smart.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Your insurance company is smart.

My new coverage requires NO co-pay for preventative care at all. More of the carrot than the stick of AGDee's but it's very encouraging.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Your insurance company is smart.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

My new coverage requires NO co-pay for preventative care at all. More of the carrot than the stick of AGDee's but it's very encouraging.

Our preventative care visits are also free. However, the pediatrician won't bill any of my daughter's visits as "well child" visits because she has asthma so it is always billed as asthma care since it always has to be addressed. That irks me a little.

This is a gradual thing they are implementing, with different pieces of it true in different years, but by 2013, we will have the following requirements to get the "cheap" healthcare:

1) Blood pressure below 140/90 or, if diabetic, 130/90
2) Non tobacco user
3) BMI less than 30 (not in the "obese range") or have lost 5% of your body weight since your last annual visit
4) Fasting blood sugar <120 or A1C <8 (the A1C is if you're diabetic)
5) Cholesterol: Acceptable LDL-C level, which, I believe will be below 159.

And, your spouse or domestic partner must meet all the requirements as well. Children are exempt.

It has caused quite an uproar, honestly.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I disagree

I think a lot of people realize that we are covering the uninsured and its because of that fact they wonder, "what's the point?". Why reconstruct the healthcare industry when something like opening up eligibility to Medicare would seem like a better solution to dealing with the uninsured. We also can't assume that people WILL take preventative care or see a primary care physician (do they still exist?) VS a hospital or an urgent care if they have any health issues. I'm insured, but I haven't been to an actual Dr.s office in YEARS, but I have been to the hospital/urgent care several times.

As someone pro-single-party health care I support opening up eligibility to Medicare for all. Rep. Anthony Weiner, NY is in favor of this idea and I'm a fan of him too. But people are even more against that because of the spectre of socialism and death panels.