Huck Finn Gets Some Changes

[Alumiyum]

Doing a word replacement using "slave" is kind of a sloppy fix, but as long as the original is available, whatever. I can see the revised version being a better choice in schools, mostly for the reason k_s talks about. To be honest, I didn't like that book much anyway and neither did my peers. I like a lot of Twain's works, but not that one.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I remember reading this book in middle school. I lived in an affluent suburb at the time, but was not uncomfortable using the word in that context. Everyone else got nervous while reading it, to the point where they were asking me to say it every time the word came up.

/random sidebar

I don't remember ever reading HF out loud in class (we always read required reading books outloud in class), and I have always suspected it's because of the school I went to. It is also in an affluent suburb that tends to be PC to a fault in reaction to certain local assumptions. There is no way in hell anyone would have said that word out loud in class.

Originally Posted by 33girl

As for The Great Gatsby, I don't think it should EVER be taught to HS students. It's one of those books you can't appreciate till you're older. I didn't read it till I was in my early 30s and it's one of my 2 favorite books. I know I wouldn't have "gotten it" in HS.

Ditto on Gatsby. I thought it was just tedious to read in high school, but went and read it a couple of years ago to see if I hated it just because it was a required book (which is the case for many classics that I dislike) and now I love it.

Originally Posted by Shellfish

As for edited books, last year I was reading about the authors of the Nancy Drew books, and it turned out that many were revised in the 1960s to lose offensive stereotypes in the originals from the 1920s and 1930s. I have to admit that this made me want to get hold of one of the older versions just to see how bad they were, because I'd probably only read the newer versions.

I didn't know that about Nancy Drew. I read copies at my grandmother's house, but I'm sure they were from the 60s because they all had either my mother or aunt's name written in them. Now I want to go back and see which version they were and find the older ones if they were from the 60s.

[sceniczip]

It's just weird to edit it. I read it in HS and hated it but don't remember any real awkwardness reading it out loud and we did read some out loud.

I LOVED Gatsby in HS! It was my favorite book I read all through high school.

I'm teaching a Modest Proposal to my students this semester. So excited

[AGDee]

I believe I read the original Nancy Drew books because I read them in the early 70s and some of them had been my mother's, others were from the library, but they were all really old. The Bobbsey Twins were pretty traditional too. I knew the Nancy Drew books so well that I could tell the difference when it was no longer the original author doing the writing. I LOVE the Nancy Drew PC games and so do my kids (still, as teenagers!). We play them as a family and have a blast doing it. There are only two we don't have yet. I got two of them as family gifts from Santa for Christmas this year and we did those while they were home on break

I enjoyed The Great Gatsby, On The Road, Huck Finn, The Crucible.. but I have to agree with MysticCat re: Old Man and the Sea. Beowulf was pretty awful to get through as were The Canterbury Tales because of the old language.

My kids read these required books out loud in class too. I think I would have slit my throat if I'd had to listen to my peers read these things out loud. My English teacher did read Beowulf to us and used an accent when doing so, which was weird too. Thankfully, the rest of them we read on our own. I loved To Kill a Mockingbird and Catcher in the Rye too. The whole stream of consciousness thing was a fascinating idea to me.

I love books.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

@drole...slight correction, there are hip hop courses that are being taught in schools.

Fair, but it's a different class and I'm sure they have their own discussions about whether to censor or not. I still find it possible to have two different opinions.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

This is the main reason I've never made it past a few chapters. It drove me crazy.

It's why I'm not a big fan of Beloved either. I just can't get into it. Oddly Canterbury Tales were just fine with high school me

I loved Catcher in the Rye. Loved, loved, loved it. Fairly early in our marriage, I learned that my wife had never read it, and I was bugging her that she had to. I remember watching while she finished it. As I looked at her expectantly, she put it down and rather slowly said, "So . . . you liked this?"

(At least I laughed when she said that.)

Seriously, sometimes I've wondered if it's a high school-or college-aged guy's book.

It Is that to an extent, but I was that whiny angsty teenager, just female, at some point but I found him so much worse. I might be able to credit it with helping me not be that teenager.

As for a more inane book, that's easy: The Old Man and the Sea.

I think I escaped that one, we may have read an excerpt but not the whole thing. Thankfully.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Second this eek

Sorry, Gatsby just doesn't do it for me. I found it so pointless. But then don't ask me about Jane Austen either. It took Zombies to get me to read P&P and even then I was kind of thinking "why would I bother with this except for the zombies?" It only supported my dislike.

I think it might be - anti-heroes still require the reader to relate, and it's really hard for a lot of people to relate to a precocious, whiny, angry, unsure-yet-cocksure, rage-against-the-machine dude feeling his way around the world. Except for other guys in that same spot.

Even when I could relate I found him so unlikable that it didn't matter anymore.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Tangent, Anne's gotten edited on & off over the years as well. Some people weren't cool with her rhapsodising about another girl's boobies.

Yeah, in general I'm anti-censorhip. I'd rather they just teach things to the appropriate level.

As for The Great Gatsby, I don't think it should EVER be taught to HS students. It's one of those books you can't appreciate till you're older. I didn't read it till I was in my early 30s and it's one of my 2 favorite books. I know I wouldn't have "gotten it" in HS.

You give me (and perhaps MC on my behalf) some small bit of hope. I'll try it again in a few years maybe.

Re dreck: The Red Badge of Courage. Yuk.

Ooh dodged that one too. How about anything by Faulkner written in stream of consciousness?

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I'm not sure I like the implicit assumption here.

Ha!

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

For me, a lot of it depends on the role the book has. I know that recently, Judy Blume approved changing parts of "Are You There God? It's Me Margaret," to reflect the changes from pads/belts to tampons and pads. .

When I learned about belts I went

Originally Posted by Gusteau

On the other hand, I feel like a learned a lot of things about history and culture by investigating the things I didn't understand in books. I tend to see "out of date" references as a learning opportunity, but I get what you're saying.

I never read Huck Finn, so I can only comment further by saying how disappointed I am the Drole doesn't like The Great Gatsby.

I agree, to an extent about changing the out of date references, but I think it depends on the purpose of the book. Is it capturing a moment in time or trying to capture a universal* experience? The latter doesn't necessarily lose something by updating. (*universal here may apply to a group or subgroup)

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

I read that in college and am in agreement it is easy to understand.

I really love Swift.

Originally Posted by sceniczip

I LOVED Gatsby in HS! It was my favorite book I read all through high school.

I'm teaching a Modest Proposal to my students this semester. So excited

You make up for your love of Gatsby by teaching A Modest Proposal.

Originally Posted by AGDee

I enjoyed The Great Gatsby, On The Road, Huck Finn, The Crucible.. but I have to agree with MysticCat re: Old Man and the Sea. Beowulf was pretty awful to get through as were The Canterbury Tales because of the old language.

My kids read these required books out loud in class too. I think I would have slit my throat if I'd had to listen to my peers read these things out loud. My English teacher did read Beowulf to us and used an accent when doing so, which was weird too. Thankfully, the rest of them we read on our own. I loved To Kill a Mockingbird and Catcher in the Rye too. The whole stream of consciousness thing was a fascinating idea to me.

I love books.

Beowulf and Chaucer were both much easier for me to get into. Shakespeare was still harder, but something about the Old English clicked with me. Or maybe it was just that Chaucer was so dirty...

I'm trying to remember what else I liked but I'm only remembering a few. Snow Falling on Cedars was good. Prince of Tides was really good but the movie sucked. King Lear was ok, Hamlet was good and Macbeth is still my favorite I think. I never read R&J because the Honors class did Julius Caesar instead.

/long reply.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Sorry, Gatsby just doesn't do it for me. I found it so pointless. But then don't ask me about Jane Austen either. It took Zombies to get me to read P&P and even then I was kind of thinking "why would I bother with this except for the zombies?" It only supported my dislike.

Austen and the Bronte sisters can retroactively invent flight so they can plummet into the ocean together, so I agree with you there. (And Boston University claims I'm qualified to speak on this matter, so F YOU pre-Victorian lit) And so that it's not all females, Nathaniel Hawthorne can be the steward on that flight into the abyss.

The pointlessness of the Great Gatsby is part of the author's intent, so if it's a turnoff, then obviously that's going to affect greatly your enjoyment - and let's face it, literature is amazingly subjective, so it's all good.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Austen and the Bronte sisters can retroactively invent flight so they can plummet into the ocean together, so I agree with you there. (And Boston University claims I'm qualified to speak on this matter, so F YOU pre-Victorian lit) And so that it's not all females, Nathaniel Hawthorne can be the steward on that flight into the abyss.

The pointlessness of the Great Gatsby is part of the author's intent, so if it's a turnoff, then obviously that's going to affect greatly your enjoyment - and let's face it, literature is amazingly subjective, so it's all good.

Yeah I know, it's like art. You like what you like. Well it is art really.

And while I get that the pointlessness was part of the point I found the point of pointlessness pointless. I think.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Shellfish

As for edited books, last year I was reading about the authors of the Nancy Drew books, and it turned out that many were revised in the 1960s to lose offensive stereotypes in the originals from the 1920s and 1930s. I have to admit that this made me want to get hold of one of the older versions just to see how bad they were, because I'd probably only read the newer versions.

I have a couple Bobbsey Twins (from the same writing stable) that are 1950s editions, and they refer to their "colored" maid and handyman. It's more a sort of patronizing attitude than anything else. Although one also involved supposed Gypsies and I don't think that flies nowadays either.

As far as the Brontes, I think it took me 2 months to read Jane Eyre - and this was back when I plowed through multiple books in a week.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I have a couple Bobbsey Twins (from the same writing stable) that are 1950s editions, and they refer to their "colored" maid and handyman. It's more a sort of patronizing attitude than anything else. Although one also involved supposed Gypsies and I don't think that flies nowadays either.

As far as the Brontes, I think it took me 2 months to read Jane Eyre - and this was back when I plowed through multiple books in a week.

The only reason I want to read Jane Eyre is because I read the Eyre Affair by Jasper Fforde (good surrealistic series btw) and I think it'd make more sense if I'd read the book before. You know, since the plot involves the main character, Tuesday Next, IN the book.

[xomanadaxo]

The variety of love/hate relationships with these novels is exactly why they should be taught in schools. A student who hates the Great Gatsby may fall in love with Huck Finn...but may have missed out on a window of opportunity if books aren't taught. I'm a big fan of variety in literature, particularly at the high school level.

FWIW, I graduated from a Catholic high school. English was the only class I had that was actually taught by a nun. When we read Huck Finn aloud in class (because the way it's written is truly best understood when read aloud), my teacher would usually just say "N" in place of the "n-word." I think the way it is used in Huck Finn is important to understanding the cultural context of the novel. If I remember correctly (it's been a few years), racism and the way African Americans are treated in the text is a major theme of the novel.

I won't jump into the debate about using the "n-word" in rap music or other contexts, but in this case I will argue that it should be kept in the novel in order to preserve the original meaning of the text...as long as students understand how and why Twain used it and that it is not acceptable to use in most situations in today's society.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Likely schools told publishing companies that they would simply read different books until the edits were made. Publishing companies, wanting to continue to sell books probably complied.

According to a story my wife heard yesterday, it was pressure from parents who didn't want their kids reading the original version.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Doing a word replacement using "slave" is kind of a sloppy fix, but as long as the original is available, whatever. I can see the revised version being a better choice in schools, mostly for the reason k_s talks about.

My problem with using "slave" as the replacement is that it doesn't mean the same thing. You've not only lost the original word, you've lost the meaning that was intended.

[Munchkin03]

On NPR this morning, there was an interview with the professor (a Twain scholar at Auburn) who did the editing. His daughter's friend, a black girl, mentioned how "disgusting" it was to read Huck Finn and it turned her off from reading Twain. Being that he was a Twain scholar, it gave him the sadz and he wondered what he could do about it.

It's still lame! His daughter's friend is a black girl from Alabama--seriously, she found reading that word in a historical/literary context disgusting? I can think of many other instances where it's far more offensive.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

On NPR this morning, there was an interview with the professor (a Twain scholar at Auburn) who did the editing. His daughter's friend, a black girl, mentioned how "disgusting" it was to read Huck Finn and it turned her off from reading Twain. Being that he was a Twain scholar, it gave him the sadz and he wondered what he could do about it.

It's still lame! His daughter's friend is a black girl from Alabama--seriously, she found reading that word in a historical/literary context disgusting? I can think of many other instances where it's far more offensive.

I agree. It's an attempt to sanitize our past and pretend like this word never existed in common language. If we don't let our children know the origins and real use of the N-word, how will they ever know WHY it is offensive in the first place?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I agree. It's an attempt to sanitize our past and pretend like this word never existed in common language. If we don't let our children now the origins and real use of the N-word, how will they ever now WHY it is offensive in the first place?

Exactly what we told our kids when we discussed it at supper last night.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

On the other hand, I feel like a learned a lot of things about history and culture by investigating the things I didn't understand in books. I tend to see "out of date" references as a learning opportunity, but I get what you're saying.

Same here. I was heavily into Nancy Drew when I was younger and there were a lot of things that I didn't know of/understand but I just asked about it or took it upon myself to find out about it. In the case of a series like ND, I can see publishing an updated series of novels/"brand extension" if you will, but not updating the original because you loose all context.

Originally Posted by sceniczip

It's just weird to edit it. I read it in HS and hated it but don't remember any real awkwardness reading it out loud and we did read some out loud.

I remember reading it out loud, but I don't recall how we treated the word. Part of the awkwardness is that it isn't as accepted (at least in that context) now as it was when the book was written. I remember the book, use of the word, etc. being part of the discussion of the text when we read it in English class.

The reason kids are as "dumb" as they are these days is because everything gets updated, sanitized, modernized and they aren't taught/aren't able to make connections.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

According to a story my wife heard yesterday, it was pressure from parents who didn't want their kids reading the original version.

My problem with using "slave" as the replacement is that it doesn't mean the same thing. You've not only lost the original word, you've lost the meaning that was intended.

I agree...and honestly, I think old classics are not a bad way to educate children today on where the word came from and why it's so offensive in the first place. It's impersonal that way.

But there are some schools that are just too terrified to handle the book correctly, and if this is what they need, fine. I just hope they do make it clear to their students that it's an edited version. I'm going to find out if my old high school switches to this version...because I'm betting they do.