Texas A&M Greek Life Moratorium

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Rebis

Texas A&M's corps produces alot of American soliders. I'm not saying hazing should be completely tolerated, but if it should the corps should be more tolerated than greek life.

But while they're in school, they're NOT American soldiers. They're in a student organization. One student organization shouldn't get a pass on things that other SOs get shut down for.

[aggieAXO]

There are a good number of corps members that do not join the military. All of the guys I knew were not interested in going into the military. I don't think that is a valid excuse.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But while they're in school, they're NOT American soldiers. They're in a student organization. One student organization shouldn't get a pass on things that other SOs get shut down for.

I find myself in 100% agreement with this.

Should the same go for the hazing at The Citadel and VMI although these are "Military Schools"? Should they get a pass.

Not so sure about ROTC as I don't really know enough about their ties to the Armed Forces and what these ties/requirements, if there are any, entail.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Should the same go for the hazing at The Citadel and VMI although these are "Military Schools"? Should they get a pass.

I think that requires being able to distinguish hazing, and other seemingly unecessary rites of passage, from official training procedures. Hazing (in the literal sense used by anti-hazing policies and laws) shouldn't be what prepares these women and men for military service and combat.

However, if the Citadel and VMI have policies and procedures that classify some of these things as nonhazing, that's when we get into the more subjective nature of "hazing." If it isn't defined as hazing, it isn't technically hazing regardless of personal opinions on the matter.

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Not so sure about ROTC as I don't really know enough about their ties to the Armed Forces and what these ties/requirements, if there are any, entail.

If I recall correctly, students (most? all? some? the ones on ROTC scholarship?) in ROTC have a couple of years of military service after graduation. This is how the government gets back their investment on these students. At least, that's how it was in the 1990s at the universities that I was familiar with.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If I recall correctly, students (most? all? some? the ones on ROTC scholarship?) in ROTC have a couple of years of military service after graduation. This is how the government gets back their investment on these students. At least, that's how it was in the 1990s at the universities that I was familiar with.

Only a slight correction for technical purposes, they only have to serve if they take the scholarship.

You don't get the scholarship once you sign on the dotted line for ROTC, but when you do get it, it does cover back to when you joined.

I could be wrong though and they were just telling me that so I could sign on the dotted line.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

However, if the Citadel and VMI have policies and procedures that classify some of these things as nonhazing, that's when we get into the more subjective nature of "hazing." If it isn't defined as hazing, it isn't technically hazing regardless of personal opinions on the matter.

Agree, but can't help wondering how state laws on hazing (if there are any for SC, VA and possibly others) come into play? I would think that they (state laws) supercede any institutional policies but , of course, there are a lot of politicos who graduated from these institutions and are now in a position to protect them.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Agree, but can't help wondering how state laws on hazing (if there are any for SC, VA and possibly others) come into play? I would think that they (state laws) supercede any institutional policies but , of course, there are a lot of politicos who graduated from these institutions and are now in a position to protect them.

SC and VA have hazing laws. I think the state laws supercede school laws, just as many schools' policies supercede organization's policies (with some exceptions).

The GC legal eagles can correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought the ranking was: state----->school----->organization

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

SC and VA have hazing laws. I think the state laws supercede school laws, just as many schools' policies supercede organization's policies (with some exceptions).

The GC legal eagles can correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought the ranking was: state----->school----->organization

I'd add that sometimes organization ----> school if the HQ is willing to support a chapter as a non-recognized student organization.

Rare, but it happens, and more-so at different schools.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'd add that sometimes organization ----> school if the HQ is willing to support a chapter as a non-recognized student organization.

Rare, but it happens, and more-so at different schools.

Read: Kappa Sigma at FGCU.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

SC and VA have hazing laws. I think the state laws supercede school laws, just as many schools' policies supercede organization's policies (with some exceptions).

The GC legal eagles can correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought the ranking was: state----->school----->organization

I thought so but was not 100% sure as I do not live in these states.

So if state law trumps school rules and school rules trump the organizations rules (in most cases) how do the Keydets of VMI, Corp at A&M and Cadets at The Citadel get away with the blatant hazing of plebes? I believe these schools have friends in high places who look out for them and/or turn a blind eye. It does seem a tad hypocritical of T A&M to clamp down on Greek organizations but not the Corp but as others have said A&M is definitely different.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But while they're in school, they're NOT American soldiers. They're in a student organization. One student organization shouldn't get a pass on things that other SOs get shut down for.

THIS.