AL Teen Missing in Aruba

[DrPhil]

DeltaZeta09 isn't smart enough to grasp anything in this thread so explaining this thread to her is a waste. She claims to have read it and her brain could only come up with what she typed.

[KillarneyRose]

Be nice, or no Panera for you!

[DrPhil]

Low blow. Low blow.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by DeltaZeta09

Reading through the threads, and how some of you responded to Alumiyum, it's embarrassing that you would associate yourselves with the Greek community. This entire thread has been about how "if she is so smart, why would she go off with some guys?" and how pretty little white girl gets attention. HELLO!? WHO CARES? The point is some normal, incredibly nice girl died in an otherwise paradise location and everyone, people who didn't know her included, have the right to care about her story hour-by-hour. I can't believe some of you are so heartless that you say things like how it's a moral lesson for others. Honestly, I find that most of the people on this website are clearly bored and unhappy. Most of the posts are negative, pompous, or sarcastic. You're supposed to be leaders in the community - or at least my initiation told us to be - and that does not include the mockery of an innocent girls death.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't complaining about the privilege certain groups get and the injustice that is generated make one a leader in the community? Yes it's sad what happened to her, but she went missing 5 years ago. The fact that there is still so much media coverage is what is making people angry.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by KillarneyRose

Honestly, it isn't like that at all. I've read this thread on and off since it started and although people have expressed frustration at a perceived abundance of media attention when someone like Natalee disappears versus when someone of less means disappears, no one wishes ill will toward her. I can't imagine anyone would argue, even posters who doubted the wisdom of Natalee going off with The Sociopath, that it is a terrible tragedy.

That said, I am sad that it wasn't Natalee's jawbone that was found. Partly because that means that there is yet another young woman out there who is unaccounted for and partly because I want her poor mother to have closure. What an unimaginable burden it must be to wake up every morning and know your child is missing and most likely dead, but you don't know for sure.

The frustration can sometimes by interpreted differently, if people don't separate it from Natalee. (Frustrating at the system/media/unfairness of it all vs. frustration at her/her family). I think just about everyone does separate the issue from her, it just gets misunderstood.

No, Natalee didn't deserve this, but neither does anyone else who ends up in the hands of someone like Joran. It is IMO important to remember that this could have happened to any girl who left with him that night, and to remember that no matter how safe your surroundings seem, there ARE bad people out there. Her mother points out in her seminars how important it is to pay attention to your surroundings and to use the "buddy system". Lots of people end up in similar situations and are lucky enough to come out with nothing but a few good stories, but it's not worth the risk.

[KSig RC]

Natalie Holloway's death was a tragedy.

This thread is an abortion.

[knight_shadow]

Thankfully, many of us are pro-choice.

[KSig RC]

It's definitely the board's right to choose.

[Animate]

Originally Posted by DeltaZeta09

Reading through the threads, and how some of you responded to Alumiyum, it's embarrassing that you would associate yourselves with the Greek community. This entire thread has been about how "if she is so smart, why would she go off with some guys?" and how pretty little white girl gets attention. HELLO!? WHO CARES? The point is some normal, incredibly nice girl died in an otherwise paradise location and everyone, people who didn't know her included, have the right to care about her story hour-by-hour. I can't believe some of you are so heartless that you say things like how it's a moral lesson for others. Honestly, I find that most of the people on this website are clearly bored and unhappy. Most of the posts are negative, pompous, or sarcastic. You're supposed to be leaders in the community - or at least my initiation told us to be - and that does not include the mockery of an innocent girls death.

As someone from Birmingham I will say that so many people are tired of the media coverage of this story. We wish for closure for her family but to have the wound opened up every few months is annoying to me.

You complain about how people that don't know here are saying this and that yet you didn't know her but claim that she is "normal, incredibly nice girl". How do you know this? She could have been whooping Joran's ass for whatever reason and he pushed back. NO ONE KNOWS; and frankly I'm tired of hearing about it. To put it harshly I don't care. It doesn't affect me at all. I just hope others learn from this story.

Now...when did being Greek mean that you can't have an opinion on issues?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Animate

As someone from Birmingham I will say that so many people are tired of the media coverage of this story. We wish for closure for her family but to have the wound opened up every few months is annoying to me.

You complain about how people that don't know here are saying this and that yet you didn't know her but claim that she is "normal, incredibly nice girl". How do you know this? She could have been whooping Joran's ass for whatever reason and he pushed back. NO ONE KNOWS; and frankly I'm tired of hearing about it. To put it harshly I don't care. It doesn't affect me at all. I just hope others learn from this story.

Now...when did being Greek mean that you can't have an opinion on issues?

Yep and even typing "normal, incredibly nice girl" has so many connotations that take us back to my very first post on victimology. What's "normal" and whose opinion of "incredibly nice" matters when it comes to garnering attention and sympathy for some victims over others.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yep and even typing "normal, incredibly nice girl" has so many connotations that take us back to my very first post on victimology. What's "normal" and whose opinion of "incredibly nice" matters when it comes to garnering attention and sympathy for some victims over others.

But again, the issue should (well, ok IMO) be made separate from Natalee and her family, as she was a victim, and they (again IMO, since I do not know them) have just done what they could to keep her from being forgotten. And, of course, she is by no means the only example of a media obsession when a pretty young white girl goes missing. (Elizabeth Smart, Jon Benet Ramsay, Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, Lori Hacking, etc. come to mind). ETA: I think it has a lot to do with "damsel in distress"...especially for the two who were abducted/murdered in childhood and Laci Peterson as she was pregnant...we want to protect them and get caught up in the stories, because they seem helpless or innocent.

Originally Posted by Animate

As someone from Birmingham I will say that so many people are tired of the media coverage of this story. We wish for closure for her family but to have the wound opened up every few months is annoying to me.

You complain about how people that don't know here are saying this and that yet you didn't know her but claim that she is "normal, incredibly nice girl". How do you know this? She could have been whooping Joran's ass for whatever reason and he pushed back. NO ONE KNOWS; and frankly I'm tired of hearing about it. To put it harshly I don't care. It doesn't affect me at all. I just hope others learn from this story.

Now...when did being Greek mean that you can't have an opinion on issues?

Just a point, but that's not a general consensus for the residents of Birmingham. Also, she was 5'4" and 110 pounds, while Joran is well over 6 feet, 6'3" IIRC and obviously was much heavier and stronger than she. There's no way she ever came close to "whooping his ass". IMO, the story he told on hidden camera about her seizing and him throwing her in the ocean with the help of a friend (even though he wasn't SURE she was dead) is the closest to the truth.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

But again, the issue should (well, ok IMO) be made separate from Natalee and her family, as she was a victim, and they (again IMO, since I do not know them) have just done what they could to keep her from being forgotten. And, of course, she is by no means the only example of a media obsession when a pretty young white girl goes missing. (Elizabeth Smart, Jon Benet Ramsay, Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, Lori Hacking, etc. come to mind). ETA: I think it has a lot to do with "damsel in distress"...especially for the two who were abducted/murdered in childhood and Laci Peterson as she was pregnant...we want to protect them and get caught up in the stories, because they seem helpless or innocent.

I don't think anyone is faulting her family for continuing the search. The point is that the media is focusing on her because she was a pretty young white girl.

Just a point, but that's not a general consensus for the residents of Birmingham. Also, she was 5'4" and 110 pounds, while Joran is well over 6 feet, 6'3" IIRC and obviously was much heavier and stronger than she. There's no way she ever came close to "whooping his ass". IMO, the story he told on hidden camera about her seizing and him throwing her in the ocean with the help of a friend (even though he wasn't SURE she was dead) is the closest to the truth.

I'm sure this was just an example. The point is that we don't know what happened.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

But again, the issue should (well, ok IMO) be made separate from Natalee and her family, as she was a victim, and they (again IMO, since I do not know them) have just done what they could to keep her from being forgotten.

No, that's not how such discussions work. Everyone has already agreed that what happened to Holloway is tragic and sad. My posts will not be prefaced with that which has been stated over and over again.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

And, of course, she is by no means the only example of a media obsession when a pretty young white girl goes missing. (Elizabeth Smart, Jon Benet Ramsay, Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, Lori Hacking, etc. come to mind).

Yes, as many readers have already figured out, this topic is a general topic in which Holloway is used as one of the many examples of a larger point.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, that's not how such discussions work. Everyone has already agreed that what happened to Holloway is tragic and sad. My posts will not be prefaced with that which has been stated over and over again.



Yes, as many readers have already figured out, this topic is a general topic in which Holloway is used as one of the many examples of a larger point.

It might be how it works for you. The side discussion on "Missing White Girl Syndrome" isn't only about "AL Teen Missing in Aruba", which is actually the subject of this thread. This thread is not general. The side conversations certainly sometimes are, as happens in most all threads. You might talk in general terms in this thread, and I do not. Which is perfectly fine.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I don't think anyone is faulting her family for continuing the search. The point is that the media is focusing on her because she was a pretty young white girl.



I'm sure this was just an example. The point is that we don't know what happened.

Right, I just think sometimes the line gets blurred. And I was only pointing out that particular example is ridiculous. We don't know for sure what happened (and probably never will), but there are a lot of things that point towards a logical/educated guess.