Sorority in TX Opens Up Rush To Transgender Student

[angels&angles]

I feel the "male student" etc etc is mostly for clarity. Since this is an explanation letter, it kind of makes sense even if it's not technically correct.

I believe transgender people use the pronoun of their preferred gender regardless of their "stage" of transition - that is, regardless of genitalia. Some retain their birth genitalia forever, but will still identify as their preferred and not birth gender.

This a first step. We'll see what happens, but it's definitely interesting that it's happening at all, and makes sense it would be happening with a local rather than national. A pro, I suppose, for locals - that they can make these decisions without HQ (possibly older, possibly traditionalist, possibly letter-not-spirit rule keepers) input

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by pixell

If this had been my school, I think it would have dominated conversations for a while.

I've never read the Green Book, but if this were a school with NPC groups rather than locals would it even be possible for this situation to happen?

I don't believe the Green Book takes a stance on the issue, and if it took an anti-transgender stance I'd toss it out anyway.

Originally Posted by angels&angles

I feel the "male student" etc etc is mostly for clarity. Since this is an explanation letter, it kind of makes sense even if it's not technically correct.

I believe transgender people use the pronoun of their preferred gender regardless of their "stage" of transition - that is, regardless of genitalia. Some retain their birth genitalia forever, but will still identify as their preferred and not birth gender.

This a first step. We'll see what happens, but it's definitely interesting that it's happening at all, and makes sense it would be happening with a local rather than national. A pro, I suppose, for locals - that they can make these decisions without HQ (possibly older, possibly traditionalist, possibly letter-not-spirit rule keepers) input

I twinge whenever I see male and he referring to a female who is transgendered. It's not particularly clarifying when all it does is emphasize the "HE" part and minimize or trivialize the SHE.

I don't really see a good reason why transgendered individuals should not be allowed to join a GLO appropriate to their gender.

[Barbie's_Rush]

I know it may be just semantics because of the way it's written, but I can't help but wonder how allowing someone who "identifies" as transgendered into an organization that previously had been protected under Title IX would work.

What would be the legal measure of whether or not someone could qualify/be considered for a single sex organization? Would simply saying you identify as a female although you were born a male do it? Would you have to have taken some sort of steps towards living as a female even if surgery is long away or not considered?

I'm not looking at discussing the gender identity issues etc., just the purely legal ones. If you allow a biological male into a sorority (without anything beyond their statement that they identify as transgendered) does that not open the door to allowing a biological male into other groups protected by Title IX such as a female sports team? Let's say Joe's a good tennis player but not good enough to make the men's team or get a scholarship. But thanks to a powerful serve and backhand, he could easily defeat most women players. Could Joe simply say he always identified as a woman and compete on the women's team?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

I know it may be just semantics because of the way it's written, but I can't help but wonder how allowing someone who "identifies" as transgendered into an organization that previously had been protected under Title IX would work.

What would be the legal measure of whether or not someone could qualify/be considered for a single sex organization? Would simply saying you identify as a female although you were born a male do it? Would you have to have taken some sort of steps towards living as a female even if surgery is long away or not considered?

I'm not looking at discussing the gender identity issues etc., just the purely legal ones. If you allow a biological male into a sorority does that not open the door to allowing a biological male into other groups protected by Title IX such as a female sports team? Let's say Joe's a good tennis player but not good enough to make the men's team or get a scholarship. But thanks to a powerful serve and backhand, he could easily defeat most women players. Could Joe simply say he always identified as a woman and compete on the women's team?

Those issues are debated within sports organizations. And studies have shown that transgender women can compete on women's teams with as little as a year of hormone replacement therapy and lose all advantage from the testosterone in their systems. And that's purely from the perspective of counteracting biological advantages.

However, assuming that there are mythical people who want to live as the other gender in order to play sports is pretty offensive. It's a bit like saying that someone might just be pretending to be gay so they can have more sex. Or pretend to be black just to get a scholarship. Might one asshole do this? Maybe. Is it actually a reasonable concern? No. And it isn't a rational argument against prohibiting transgendered individuals from participating with their identified gender.

Transgender women are women. Transgender men are men. Title IX status should not be affected by it and as Kye Allums has just started playing Division I basketball, I think that it's not a concern at all. He's a male player on the women's team. NCAA rules prohibit typical steps in transitioning. Because of when he 'came out' his status is pretty much the same. Had he done so before college, who knows.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Those issues are debated within sports organizations. And studies have shown that transgender women can compete on women's teams with as little as a year of hormone replacement therapy and lose all advantage from the testosterone in their systems. And that's purely from the perspective of counteracting biological advantages.

However, assuming that there are mythical people who want to live as the other gender in order to play sports is pretty offensive. It's a bit like saying that someone might just be pretending to be gay so they can have more sex. Or pretend to be black just to get a scholarship. Might one asshole do this? Maybe. Is it actually a reasonable concern? No. And it isn't a rational argument against prohibiting transgendered individuals from participating with their identified gender.

Transgender women are women. Transgender men are men. Title IX status should not be affected by it and as Kye Allums has just started playing Division I basketball, I think that it's not a concern at all.

That's not what I was talking about at all. I am talking about legal measures of what constitutes transgender identification. Is just saying it's so make it so? Yes, I think it would be really effed up to pretend to be transgendered, but I also know there are a lot of people in this world who are willing to do really awful things when there's a motive like money involved.

[33girl]

We had a thread on this before. I think the conclusion was that for national groups, unless the person is at the point where they have LEGALLY changed sex (i.e. the driver's license and birth certificate now say Susan instead of Stanley) admitting a student in this situation - no matter if they live as the other sex 24/7 - could interfere with our single-sex status and open up a giant can of worms.

It's not about being closed-minded or not understanding transgender issues, it's about legal ramifications. That's why I pointed out the local status of the groups.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

We had a thread on this before. I think the conclusion was that for national groups, unless the person is at the point where they have LEGALLY changed sex (i.e. the driver's license and birth certificate now say Susan instead of Stanley) admitting a student in this situation - no matter if they live as the other sex 24/7 - could interfere with our single-sex status and open up a giant can of worms.

It's not about being closed-minded or not understanding transgender issues, it's about legal ramifications. That's why I pointed out the local status of the groups.

That's what I was thinking about, how each individual state varies when it comes to legal documents and recognizing people. Some states will change name and/or sex, some will amend but keep the original one on file, and some will issue a completely new birth certificate. I know Idaho will only change name, but not sex so all legal documents will have the birth sex listed even with the new legal name.

Since we're Inter/National organizations there could be issues when people go to school in another state or do everything they can to be who they are, and are still held back by paperwork. Bylaws may have to be rewritten because of gender or sex terminology if someone is legally unable to change their birth certificate. Local orgs. can do what they want with much more ease regarding membership and I'm sure we're going to see more local or regional groups accepting transgendered members before the larger councils.

To be honest though I think this is going to be an issue that isn't common as transgendered people, especially teens, are at a higher risk to lose health insurance, jobs, family support, assaulted/victims of crime, and be discriminated in finding housing and employment that this is more likely going to be seen with wealthier, supported individuals at private schools. Trinity is over $42,000 a year for everything and every person I've met who has been in transition or transitioned in the age range of 18-22 was from a wealthy family and attended the majority attended private schools. These students will be pioneers but until we deal with all the other issues it isn't a huge victory.

Another thing to note is that even if someone has had all of the physical treatments and came from a state with new birth certificates the amount of information people put on the internet and that is available can out people and I can't imagine the fall out if a man or woman joined and while they are still in school it came to light they were born with a different name and sex. I'm not even talking transphobia, but of people feeling as if they were betrayed. When we constantly see young adults making party theme choices and choosing a chapter to join before rush and validate it by their age, I don't think finding out your chapter brother or sister was a different gender would go over well.