ITT We Discuss Theology

[Psi U MC Vito]

Idk. It seems like a logical choice to me.

[VandalSquirrel]

I wish more faiths/sects would own up to unsavory things in their past. I like that we're open about Martin Luther making anti-Semitic statements and not just pretending it didn't happen or addressing it when it comes up. I think openly admitting things and not trying to hide it can bring greater healing and understanding.

I'd also like people to realize that even though I attend a church labeled "Evangelical Lutheran Church in America" we're not that kind of evangelical. There's also a lot of difference among the Lutherans, and most are much less liberal than my group. However there are many different groups and movements inside the ELCA, feminist, GLBTQ, leaving the ELCA, charismatic, and so on.

We also allow any person who has ever been baptized to have communion in our church, and we're in full communion with many other "mainline" Protestants, and in some places (Delta Junction, Alaska for example) we're a shared congregation with the Presbyterians. We also have many congregations that worship in languages other than English, including Native American and Alaska Native languages.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I'd also like people to realize that even though I attend a church labeled "Evangelical Lutheran Church in America" we're not that kind of evangelical.

Yeah, but there are some trying to get us there. Yoicks.

I'm in a bit of a theological crisis right now so this thread is tres apropos.

[moe.ron]

I enjoy the missionary position.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yeah, but there are some trying to get us there. Yoicks.

I'm in a bit of a theological crisis right now so this thread is tres apropos.

My biggest crisis was during the ordination vote in 2009, I almost woke up an Episcopalian. The more I thought about it though, either side of the decision should really be willing to leave the ELCA if they don't like it. Is there anything more Lutheran than leaving your church and starting or joining another one because you don not like how things are run?

I've never changed my faith (baby baptism and confirmation) because I'm welcome to the other mainline Protestant congregations, and I like a lot of the freedom we give our members. Women are completely included and are equal to men (unlike in the other two main Lutheran groups). We allow people to make their own choice about creation and evolution, embrace science and God. Abortion is something we don't want to happen, and we'd like to prevent it but we're against making it illegal and aren't okay with being horrible to people who do get one. We're now allowing ordination of same sex partnered people, but individual congregations don't need to be forced to having those people as pastors if they don't want to.

I think from previous musings we're similar in our worship wants. No rock band at the altar, no speaking in tongues (yeah it happens), more of the old church aspects we grew up with in the more ethnic congregations, oh and how I miss the Green Book and really enjoy individual cups and wafers, or at least not having people touch my body and sharing a cup of the blood.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

My biggest crisis was during the ordination vote in 2009, I almost woke up an Episcopalian. The more I thought about it though, either side of the decision should really be willing to leave the ELCA if they don't like it. Is there anything more Lutheran than leaving your church and starting or joining another one because you don not like how things are run?

I've never changed my faith (baby baptism and confirmation) because I'm welcome to the other mainline Protestant congregations, and I like a lot of the freedom we give our members. Women are completely included and are equal to men (unlike in the other two main Lutheran groups). We allow people to make their own choice about creation and evolution, embrace science and God. Abortion is something we don't want to happen, and we'd like to prevent it but we're against making it illegal and aren't okay with being horrible to people who do get one. We're now allowing ordination of same sex partnered people, but individual congregations don't need to be forced to having those people as pastors if they don't want to.

I think from previous musings we're similar in our worship wants. No rock band at the altar, no speaking in tongues (yeah it happens), more of the old church aspects we grew up with in the more ethnic congregations, oh and how I miss the Green Book and really enjoy individual cups and wafers, or at least not having people touch my body and sharing a cup of the blood.

Part of it is my home church joined CORE. No, I don't live there anymore, but with my dad's death and selling the house and everything...I just feel like this is one more thing I've lost, the church being the same as always. I want something to stay the same.

There's a LCMS church a block from my house. I really like some of the more traditional aspects in the service, but the other Sunday when I went WHOA were they hitting the "women are subservient" thing in the lesson. I also checked out the marriage service (not that I'm doing that soon). And..well...the serve your hub part? No.

The ELCA congregation I love is downtown - it's the one I told GeekyPenguin about so her fiance could see the website. Mary on the altar, Stations of the Cross on the wall...pretty much the most Catholic Lutheran church I've ever been in. I feel myself drawn to the beautiful aspects of Catholicism because of my grandma & great aunt...it helps me feel close to them.

Basically my problem is I've got all these missing my family issues going on and it really screws up the concept of being part of something due to the theology alone.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Part of it is my home church joined CORE. No, I don't live there anymore, but with my dad's death and selling the house and everything...I just feel like this is one more thing I've lost, the church being the same as always. I want something to stay the same.

There's a LCMS church a block from my house. I really like some of the more traditional aspects in the service, but the other Sunday when I went WHOA were they hitting the "women are subservient" thing in the lesson. I also checked out the marriage service (not that I'm doing that soon). And..well...the serve your hub part? No.

The ELCA congregation I love is downtown - it's the one I told GeekyPenguin about so her fiance could see the website. Mary on the altar, Stations of the Cross on the wall...pretty much the most Catholic Lutheran church I've ever been in. I feel myself drawn to the beautiful aspects of Catholicism because of my grandma & great aunt...it helps me feel close to them.

Basically my problem is I've got all these missing my family issues going on and it really screws up the concept of being part of something due to the theology alone.

Oh dear, joining CORE would be a problem for me as well. I wouldn't go to an LCMS church if there was a Protestant church that has more of my views. I am not going to be baptized again so I can have communion in an LCMS church, and frankly my personal life beliefs would be a constant source of cognitive dissonance for me.

I hear you on not being able to go to your home church and have that connection. The church building I grew up in is now a luxury home and the congregation we belong to now has great people, but the building doesn't feel right to me. I miss the huge stained glass windows, the dark wood and pews with three aisles, with a large railed altar. The building in my town now is round, and I always feel so disconcerted sitting that way.

If going downtown is a hassle, is there another Protestant church you could attend in the meantime where you'd feel comfortable and could have communion? I'm not saying give up, but I've had to step away from the jello and hot dish to deal with my faith issues and still have a spiritual life that meets my needs.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

The more I thought about it though, either side of the decision should really be willing to leave the ELCA if they don't like it. Is there anything more Lutheran than leaving your church and starting or joining another one because you don not like how things are run?

My church did leave. We're now LCMC, which is Lutheran Churches in Missions for Christ. So far, the only thing that's REALLY changed at our church (besides removing the references to ELCA in our Constitution and etc) is us now spending our own Benevolence dollars our way, instead of sending them to ELCA to spend for us. We've been able to do a LOT more local philanthropy then we were ever able to before.

Our newest project that we're supporting is this guy who started a cooking school in Charlotte. The school is for poor/unemployed people who need a skill-set. While learning to cook, the students prepare 400+ meals a day for the needy. Teaching a man to fish AND feeding the poor in one shot - that's the best charity idea I've heard of in awhile.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Idk. It seems like a logical choice to me.

It does make sense and it's very simple stance, but I have a problem with the idea of being a "fair-weather" believer.