African American women in CPC, opinions, please?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^ sigmadiva, do you think it occurs to them that they might be shunned? Or even whether they had ever been shunned previously. Remember that rush is the first time a lot of these women have been "judged."

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

The summer before my senior year in high school, a pre-college week at a well-loved and regarded Southern university. It was geared towards black students who were interested in certain career fields. I was pretty excited about it, since the college was very popular in my hometown and I had visited the campus and LOVED it before. Well, I was stunned to find out that, according to most of the girls in the program, I "acted white," I "talked white." Hell, according to a few of them, I even "sneezed white." Seriously? I had never heard anything like that before.

I doubt my experience is that unique...so, if you have teenagers who have experienced that more times than I did, why wouldn't they go NPC, when their friends are doing the same thing?

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

this is what i was thinking about when someone earlier was asking about "the only ones" joining an NPHC.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

It is a reciprocal relationship. Some of these people are not accused of "acting white" because they do things like speak well and get good grades. Afterall, many of us went to all white schools, were always honor students, speak well, but were able to maneuver both worlds quite well (with exception for the people who weren't accustomed to Blacks who spoke well, etc.).

Socialization is powerful and that applies to the things that I typed in the other response to you. If you take someone who has been socialized as the "Black visitor for whiteness/white privilege," that will reflect when they are all-Black settings. The Black person who is no longer "the Black person here" now has to deal with not being the center of attention. Now they are just like the rest and they will be called out if they appear disconnected, discontent, insecure, unaware, and socially inadequate based on cultural identifiers.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It is a reciprocal relationship. Some of these people are not accused of "acting white" because they do things like speak well and get good grades. Afterall, many of us went to all white schools, were always honor students, speak well, but were able to maneuver both worlds quite well (with exception for the people who weren't accustomed to Blacks who spoke well, etc.).

Socialization is powerful and that applies to the things that I typed in the other response to you. If you take someone who has been socialized as the "Black visitor for whiteness/white privilege," that will reflect when they are all-Black settings. The Black person who is no longer "the Black person here" now has to deal with not being the center of attention. Now they are just like the rest and they will be called out if they appear disconnected, discontent, insecure, unaware, and socially inadequate based on cultural identifiers.

This is sooo true and I wish people would get it. I have navigated both worlds (predominantly black vs. predominantly white) all my life and noticed that when a Black person is called out for "acting white" by other Blacks, it's not always because the person is being accused of speaking well and having high academic standards. A lot of times they are speaking of the person's disconnection to their culture and other Blacks. I have watched some of these persons purposely not speak or interact with other Black people and try to act like and do what their white peers were doing, including allowing their own hair to break off and fall out because they were washing it every day and using products (with drying agents) not meant for their hair texture. This kind of thing is what is meant often times when a Black person is accused of "acting white."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This is sooo true and I wish people would get it. I have navigated both worlds (predominantly black vs. predominantly white) all my life and noticed that when a Black person is called out for "acting white" by other Blacks, it's not always because the person is being accused of speaking well and having high academic standards. A lot of times they are speaking of the person's disconnection to their culture and other Blacks. I have watched some of these persons purposely not speak or interact with other Black people and try to act like and do what their white peers were doing, including allowing their own hair to break off and fall out because they were washing it every day and using products (with drying agents) not meant for their hair texture. This kind of thing is what is meant often times when a Black person is accused of "acting white."

Co-sign!

Black culture cannot be reduced to low socioeconomic status, bad grades, and "broken English" and "Ebonics." There is more to understanding and identifying with Blackness and what people mean when they think someone is disconnected from it.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This is sooo true and I wish people would get it. I have navigated both worlds (predominantly black vs. predominantly white) all my life and noticed that when a Black person is called out for "acting white" by other Blacks, it's not always because the person is being accused of speaking well and having high academic standards. A lot of times they are speaking of the person's disconnection to their culture and other Blacks. I have watched some of these persons purposely not speak or interact with other Black people and try to act like and do what their white peers were doing, including allowing their own hair to break off and fall out because they were washing it every day and using products (with drying agents) not meant for their hair texture. This kind of thing is what is meant often times when a Black person is accused of "acting white."

Eek. People actually DO this?

[Jill1228]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Eek. People actually DO this?

I was wondering the same thing

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Jill1228

I was wondering the same thing

I wouldn't have written it if I hadn't seen it and DrPhil wouldn't have co-signed if she hadn't. Not everyone embraces their "Blackness" and you can insert any ethnicity in the blank. Unfortunately, not everyone loves who and what they are and some are in serious denial about their unique needs in caring for themselves mentally, emotionally, and physically when compared to others. Sad, but true.

[DrPhil]

Yesssssss. I think I referenced the hair texture thing a couple of posts ago.

In the few instances where nonwhites are the power and population majority, something similar happens:

I may've shared this story before but I remember the hottest white guy at my middle school who was widely accepted as "the cool white guy" and "the fine white guy." That certainly went to his head (also literally, you'll see) and he started doing everything he could do to dress like, talk like, and even walk like "one of the Black boys." The funniest thing was that this was in the '80s and Black guys were shaving their names and stuff in their heads. Well, guess what, his hair texture wasn't conducive to that...not even if he tried to do a buzz cut or fade...but he damn sure tried. LOL. It was the funniest thing. He was so laughed at that he wore a hat for 2 weeks. God bless his soul as he was reminded that he is not "just like us."

Of course, not all white ethnicities have the same hair texture and not all Blacks and African Diasporics have the same hair texture. But, you damn sure need to understand whether or not you share the same texture of those you are trying to mimick.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I wouldn't have written it if I hadn't seen it and DrPhil wouldn't have co-signed if she hadn't. Not everyone embraces their "Blackness" and you can insert any ethnicity in the blank. Unfortunately, not everyone loves who and what they are and some are in serious denial about their unique needs in caring for themselves mentally, emotionally, and physically when compared to others. Sad, but true.

That IS sad. I mean, I have always had more non-Black friends than Black ones, but I have never for a second thought to wash my hair everyday. That, and I'd rather not be bald. lol.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This is sooo true and I wish people would get it. I have navigated both worlds (predominantly black vs. predominantly white) all my life and noticed that when a Black person is called out for "acting white" by other Blacks, it's not always because the person is being accused of speaking well and having high academic standards. A lot of times they are speaking of the person's disconnection to their culture and other Blacks. I have watched some of these persons purposely not speak or interact with other Black people and try to act like and do what their white peers were doing, including allowing their own hair to break off and fall out because they were washing it every day and using products (with drying agents) not meant for their hair texture. This kind of thing is what is meant often times when a Black person is accused of "acting white."

Oh, now those people are "confused." They'll have their Sarah Jane moment in a minute...

My experiences weren't because of grades, language, or economics, not at all. The college prep program that I attended was primarily middle-class Black kids who were college-bound. They just had very strong ideas of what it meant to "be Black," perhaps it was where they were from, maybe it was the fact that they were 16 and 17 years old and omniscient. Who knows?

So, when I talked about going skiing or hunting, they didn't understand, because Black people they knew didn't do that kind of stuff. What they called "acting White," my family and I called "simply outdoorsy."

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Oh, now those people are "confused." They'll have their Sarah Jane moment in a minute...

My experiences weren't because of grades, language, or economics, not at all. The college prep program that I attended was primarily middle-class Black kids who were college-bound. They just had very strong ideas of what it meant to "be Black," perhaps it was where they were from, maybe it was the fact that they were 16 and 17 years old and omniscient. Who knows?

So, when I talked about going skiing or hunting, they didn't understand, because Black people they knew didn't do that kind of stuff. What they called "acting White," my family and I called "simply outdoorsy."

Yes, but I'm sure you knew what they meant. Although things are changing because diversity is becoming more widely accepted and people now have more friends of different ethnicities and are therefore broadening their horizons, in predominantly Black communities, not a lot of folks do the "outdoorsy" thing and in predominantly white communities, not a lot of folks are doing some of the things that Black folks commonly do in predominantly Black communities. So we all know exactly what is meant by this although I'm not saying it's fair to accuse someone of "acting white" because of it.

Then again, maybe you've never lived in a predominantly Black community? You still should know what they meant though.

[Dionysus]

I'm convinced there's some black beat that most black people hear, and a few of us do not hear it.

It goes way beyond a preference for hunting or skiing, or not.

I don't know what you mean.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I'm convinced there's some black beat that most black people hear, and a few of us do not hear it.

It goes way beyond a preference for hunting or skiing, or not.

I don't know what you mean.

LOL. The Black beat is just like the commonalities that other races, ethnicities and cultures share with one another. You hear some of it but you don't have to hear 100% of it to know how to identify. The biggest thing is to not appear so detached that you seem judgmental and holier than thou. That works both ways, though.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Nope, didn't grow up in a predominantly Black community.

Yes, I understand what they meant now, when I was 17 not so much, because the things I grew up doing, most of the Black people I knew did as well. It wasn't so weird that my father golfed because most of the men in our family and most of his friends did. We camped with other families. Again--nothing that didn't seem "Black" to me. But, for those people, it was like I had three heads.

I see now, 12 years later, that it was more a reflection on them and a limited scope of what it meant to "be Black." As a high school senior, however, it was a different experience.

Blacks of higher socioeconomic status will do things like golf and traveling (camping should be reserved for the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts as far as I'm concerned ). However, since most Blacks of higher SES are first generation well-off, older Blacks are fully aware that what they enjoy doing is not what they were socialized to identify as Blackness. As a younger Black person you wouldn't have known that so you didn't know what the hell those Blacks were talking about.

I think it's important to note that Blacks of higher SES do not abandon the racial and cultural identifiers of Blackness. And when Blacks of higher SES think they have fully assimilated and fully identify with whites of higher SES, they are reminded of the instances where Blackness carries more weight than SES. The -isms aside, there are still things that some Blacks of higher SES will not do that some whites of higher SES fully identify with.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I had never heard anything like that before.

I doubt my experience is that unique...so, if you have teenagers who have experienced that more times than I did, why wouldn't they go NPC, when their friends are doing the same thing?

I can one up you. Apparently I "smelled white" at one point. WTF?