Fraternity and Sorority Arms, Seals, Flags and other Insignia

[carnation]

Isn't there something about the crest being diamond-shaped because a woman's COA is supposed to be? I'd swear I read that somewhere.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

mind = blown

Me too. And thanks, Lucy, for the additional information on the different designs.

Originally Posted by jennyj87

In tri delta we have three stages of membership: new member (where you are a pearl), college (a pine tree) and an alum ( a pansy). I love how our crest has three of the stages.

I can't find the pearl. Where is it/are they?

Originally Posted by GTAlphaPhi

While we officially call this our crest, technically, I think a crest is only the thing at the top, so the ivy in this case, the bird on Theta's (eagle?), etc.

Heraldically speaking, yes. While many orgs (and many people) use "crest" and "coat of arms" interchangeably, from an heraldic standpoint, the crest (i.e. "top") is the part of the design at the top. Originally, it would have been the decoration a knight added to his helmet.

The crest on our coat of arms is a harp -- the modern equivalent of the lyre.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Somebody correct me if wrong, but most of the CoAs aren't technically correct right?

Depends.

Most Americans who know anything about heraldry are used to the British (English and Scottish) rules of heraldry, and by those rules, many GLO arms are not completely "correct." But in other countries, the rules can differ.

But yes, many GLOs use arms that do not adhere strictly to the rules of [Bristish] heraldry. That's the American in us.

Originally Posted by purcupile

Some of my favorite images came from this era, in the form of elaborate allegorical representations from the various chapters. One of my favorite images was a Sigma Chi image of their badge and motto floating above an island…from that image I created, what I consider to the most beautiful image of the Sigma Chi badge. I have subsequently seen this same allegory with other fraternity’s badges and mottos.However, I digress as this forum is for a discussion of the arms of the fraternities not for badges…nor is it my intent to discuss fraternities different from my own.

You don't digress at all. I was thinking specifically of allegories when I said that we could share information about pre-heraldic designs. I think it's fine for is to discuss other org's arms, as long as we're clear about them not being ours.

During the period of the late 1880’s through the turn of the century many fraternities went about creating specific images which incorporated the rituals, and purpose of their founding. Some just drew up an image which appealed to them, while others took a more pragmatic approach which required that a heraldic description from which to artistically design the coat-of-arms. For those reading who are not familiar with that terms is a cryptic and specific description of a coat-of-arms,,,it follows the ancient symbols in use hundreds of years ago. At that time there were only 5 colors and 2 metals that were used on arms… e.g. horizontal lines symbolized azure in drawings.

See, this is where our focus on "the rules" can get in the way. In British heraldry, there are 2 metals (or/gold and argent/silver) and 5 common tinctures (gules/red, azure/blue, vert/green, sable/black and purpure/purple). But British and European heraldry knew other tinctures as well: tenny (or tenné)/orange, murrey (a burgandy color), sanguine (blood red), celeste (sky blue), carnation (the color of "typical" European skin), cendrée (dark gray), just to name a few.

Originally Posted by carnation

Isn't there something about the crest being diamond-shaped because a woman's COA is supposed to be? I'd swear I read that somewhere.

Traditionally (British rules again), a woman does not use a shield for her arms, because she would not go into battle. Instead, her arms are placed on a "lozenge" -- a diamond shape like Pi Phi's arms.

There is one woman who by rule uses a shield rather than a lozenge. Her primary residence is Buckingham Palace.

[als463]

You'll notice that our badge is also incorporated into the COA.


Alpha Chi Sigma (my guy's Fraternity). Notice the badge shape of the COA.



As a Member of Kappa Delta Pi (International Education Honor Society), here is our seal:


Notice that the shield incorporates the KDP badge:

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

There is one woman who by rule uses a shield rather than a lozenge. Her primary residence is Buckingham Palace.

That's by virtue of her being the head of the British Armed Forces right? Do the various Governor Generals have CoAs, and if so do they also hold the shield shape regardless of gender?

/tangent.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

That's by virtue of her being the head of the British Armed Forces right? Do the various Governor Generals have CoAs, and if so do they also hold the shield shape regardless of gender?

/tangent.

In the Queen's case it is because she is the monarch and the royal arms are both hers and the arms of the country.

I would assume Governors General bear arms, but as they would be personal only, I would expect them to follow the traditional rule.

And I need to revise a little -- traditionally, women use lozenges or ovals rather than shields.

[jennyj87]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I can't find the pearl. Where is it/are they?

Oops. meant to say two!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Like if a lion = royalty in heraldry then using a lion would make it obvious that you were kings or something. (Intentionally bad example.)

Obviously not something people could answer in detail as it would 'give away the game' so to speak. But then, I don't know the rules either.

There is probably some truth to this. I suspect that the most important thing to many of the designers was the symbolism rather then "rules," though many arms encompass both. Like I've said before, too, in American symbolism in general, one often sees a certain "freedom" from the rules.

And for what it's worth, it's very rare that a particular symbol always stands for a particular meaning (like lion = royalty). While royal arms often use lions, so do many other arms.

Originally Posted by Miriverite

We have a rather simplistic CoA =)

From the standpoint of good heraldic design, simpler is almost always better because it's easier to "read" and identify.

The sad thing is that our beloved lyre is not represented on the AXO CoA at all =(

As others have said, the lyrebird is there.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And for what it's worth, it's very rare that a particular symbol always stands for a particular meaning (like lion = royalty). While royal arms often use lions, so do many other arms.

True, as I said it was a bad example, but there are pretty strong traditional meanings to some symbols as well, even if there are alternative ones.

I was simply curious. I think CoAs are harder to discuss than badges because so much of them are ritual. We can't say "and the stars mean this and the lamp means that and the colors stand for something else entirely."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think CoAs are harder to discuss than badges because so much of them are ritual. We can't say "and the stars mean this and the lamp means that and the colors stand for something else entirely."

They can be, but not necessarily. As noted above, some coats of arms have "open" meanings and secret meanings. I mean, there are some coats of arms that have been posted that I know (at least some) of the symbolism of, even though the members who posted them didn't give an explanation. There are parts of those coats of arms that the GLOs in question have been open about. I haven't said anything yet to wait and see if a member offers some explanation.

Likewise, some badges have (or are) symbols that can't be explained. (Triangles? ) And there's a reason that some of us are a little unfamiliar with the idea that people in some orgs can put whatever gems they want to on badges.