How does one respond to...

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

See my above post.

I don't want to get too nebby as to different groups' operations, but I'd guess that national offices require more than "it just wasn't for me" as a self-termination excuse. We had a woman try to self-terminate and she was denied because she didn't have valid reasons. If they don't tell you why, then the chapter shouldn't sign off on the termination/should request HQ doesn't approve it. Yes, it sounds a little blackmaily but I believe if someone's quitting they should show a little courtesy and tell you if it's them not you, rather than make you think the sorority's to blame.

So, this obviously varies based on the (NPC) sorority. My question, if you don't mind my asking, is whether the denial was "successful." Were you all able to get her to want to stay beyond being forced to stay? How does it work in terms of sisterhood and interaction when someone is denied the ability to self-terminate? I don't recall this topic on GC before as it pertains to the NPC.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

So, this obviously varies based on the (NPC) sorority. My question, if you don't mind my asking, is whether the denial was "successful." Were you all able to get her to want to stay beyond being forced to stay? How does it work in terms of sisterhood and interaction when someone is denied the ability to self-terminate? I don't recall this topic on GC before as it pertains to the NPC.

Her reason for wanting to leave was "I'm a senior and I don't go to anything and don't want to pay for it." The chapter didn't oppose the termination, the national office did. We were a little more understanding of being flat ass broke than HQ was, and she was on the flaky side to begin with. She was active for another semester, did student teaching and then graduated.

That was probably a bad example to use in this context, but I just wanted to point out that even if people DO try to self-terminate it can get shot down by the NO and they're still on the hook for dues, so they might as well try to work it out. Obviously this isn't the case with every group as there are stories of women terminating left and right because they're upperclassmen.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Her reason for wanting to leave was "I'm a senior and I don't go to anything and don't want to pay for it." The chapter didn't oppose the termination, the national office did. We were a little more understanding of being flat ass broke than HQ was, and she was on the flaky side to begin with. She was active for another semester, did student teaching and then graduated.

That was probably a bad example to use in this context, but I just wanted to point out that even if people DO try to self-terminate it can get shot down by the NO and they're still on the hook for dues, so they might as well try to work it out. Obviously this isn't the case with every group as there are stories of women terminating left and right because they're upperclassmen.

That is interesting. Thanks for answering.

(If the OP was seeking advice rather than just sparking discussion) the point is that the OP needs to know what her NHQ/NO policies and procedures are and her chapter will know what to do from there should this ever be an issue. Consult your local/regional entity and chapter advisor (for those GLOs that don't allow nonmembers to advise). As with many Greek Life topics, it isn't really about what GCers think or what other orgs do. We should all know our GLO's policies and procedures and how our NHQs operate.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Her reason for wanting to leave was "I'm a senior and I don't go to anything and don't want to pay for it." The chapter didn't oppose the termination, the national office did. We were a little more understanding of being flat ass broke than HQ was, and she was on the flaky side to begin with. She was active for another semester, did student teaching and then graduated.

That was probably a bad example to use in this context, but I just wanted to point out that even if people DO try to self-terminate it can get shot down by the NO and they're still on the hook for dues, so they might as well try to work it out. Obviously this isn't the case with every group as there are stories of women terminating left and right because they're upperclassmen.

I feel like it's a little too easy for members to self terminate in some NPC's (mine included, if my understanding of the process is correct). On the other hand, if they TRULY do not want to be in my chapter, I want them to be able to leave.

I also have a "thing" about members self terminating and still wearing letters. I don't expect them to hand in the t-shirts they paid for or the jewelry their mother bought them, but I also expect that since they no longer want to represent my organization they will no longer wear my letters. Huge pet peeve.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I also have a "thing" about members self terminating and still wearing letters. I don't expect them to hand in the t-shirts they paid for or the jewelry their mother bought them, but I also expect that since they no longer want to represent my organization they will no longer wear my letters. Huge pet peeve.

When it comes to people who are depledging (and not people who simply don't want to be active/financial for a period of time as a collegiate or alum), some fraternities and sororities collect many of the items from the person. That includes ritual, pins, paraphernalia, etc. Some entities request for these items to be left in good faith and some entities offer...encouragement to do so.

It makes sense that some people don't want to leave some of the letters/symbols behind that were gifts, but people should have enough respect to check with the policies and procedures to see what to do. I recommend donating the items to an active member. It is against some GLO's policies and procedures to do things like donate items to The Salvation Army or throw them in the trash. We can't necessarily force someone who chooses to depledge (or is even expelled) to return every single thing or stop wearing and displaying every single thing. It's dumb for them to want to do so, but people don't always make sense.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

When it comes to people who are depledging (and not people who simply don't want to be active/financial for a period of time as a collegiate or alum), some fraternities and sororities collect many of the items from the person. That includes ritual, pins, paraphernalia, etc. Some entities request for these items to be left in good faith and some entities offer...encouragement to do so.

It makes sense that some people don't want to leave some of the letters/symbols behind that were gifts, but people should have enough respect to check with the policies and procedures to see what to do. I recommend donating the items to an active member. It is against some GLO's policies and procedures to do things like donate items to The Salvation Army or throw them in the trash. We can't necessarily force someone who chooses to depledge (or is even expelled) to return every single thing or stop wearing and displaying every single thing. It's dumb for them to want to do so, but people don't always make sense.

Pins/badges and ritual should be given back to the organization, period, IMO. I think giving items with letters to an active is the best solution, but so many (the ones I know, specifically) do not and continue to wear the mixer and formal shirts, keep letters on their cars, etc. It really does irritate me, and I wish other actives would be a little more firm in the separation between "friend" and "sister" when a member deactivates. I don't advocate shunning them, and I have good friends that have quit for different reasons. But I don't refer to them as a sister, and refuse to act like they are one. They quit. They are my good friend, but they are not a sister in my organization and IMO that line should be drawn.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't want to get too nebby as to different groups' operations, but I'd guess that national offices require more than "it just wasn't for me" as a self-termination excuse. We had a woman try to self-terminate and she was denied because she didn't have valid reasons. If they don't tell you why, then the chapter shouldn't sign off on the termination/should request HQ doesn't approve it. Yes, it sounds a little blackmaily but I believe if someone's quitting they should show a little courtesy and tell you if it's them not you, rather than make you think the sorority's to blame.

This is interesting.

In my organization (and in similar orgs, I've been told), your dues are sent off as soon as they're paid with the understanding that it's non-refundable. If, after paying dues, someone decides to drop, that's his prerogative. He knows he's not getting his money back. That's why I don't feel compelled to probe when a pledge doesn't want to continue the process.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I feel like it's a little too easy for members to self terminate in some NPC's (mine included, if my understanding of the process is correct). On the other hand, if they TRULY do not want to be in my chapter, I want them to be able to leave.

I also have a "thing" about members self terminating and still wearing letters. I don't expect them to hand in the t-shirts they paid for or the jewelry their mother bought them, but I also expect that since they no longer want to represent my organization they will no longer wear my letters. Huge pet peeve.

This is why I'm glad that letters are restricted to initiated members. We don't have to worry about getting lettered items back, as they don't wear letters in the first place.

I'm not aware of anyone refusing to return ritual items or pins.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

This is interesting.

In my organization (and in similar orgs, I've been told), your dues are sent off as soon as they're paid with the understanding that it's non-refundable. If, after paying dues, someone decides to drop, that's his prerogative. He knows he's not getting his money back. That's why I don't feel compelled to probe when a pledge doesn't want to continue the process.

The OP is talking about pledges AND initiated members. If a pledge wants to drop, I'd still ask those same questions from my first post in this thread, but probably not get as bent out of shape about it if they didn't want to be there. The point of pledgeship is (well, should be) a trial period to see if Greek life is for you or not.

The posts of mine and alumiyum's you quoted, we were referring to initiated members.

[Miriverite]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

In my organization (and in similar orgs, I've been told), your dues are sent off as soon as they're paid with the understanding that it's non-refundable. If, after paying dues, someone decides to drop, that's his prerogative. He knows he's not getting his money back. That's why I don't feel compelled to probe when a pledge doesn't want to continue the process.

Well obviously money is a huge factor, but it's not the only factor. When you're trying to expand your numbers and members are dropping off, citing "Greek life isn't for me," it really doesn't matter how much money you've leeched off of them if you're a frat left with only 5 individuals.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

^^ Active members can drop too.

Yea, I know. I thought those posts were referring to pledges/NMs.

Originally Posted by 33girl

The OP is talking about pledges AND initiated members. If a pledge wants to drop, I'd still ask those same questions from my first post in this thread, but probably not get as bent out of shape about it if they didn't want to be there. The point of pledgeship is (well, should be) a trial period to see if Greek life is for you or not.

The posts of mine and alumiyum's you quoted, we were referring to initiated members.

Got it.

My chapter has only had one person resign membership in our history, but he had no qualms returning his paraphernalia and ritual. Most actives don't turn in letters -- they stop being financial. And, like DrPhil said, our goal is to get them to become active again.

Originally Posted by Miriverite

Well obviously money is a huge factor, but it's not the only factor. When you're trying to expand your numbers and members are dropping off, citing "Greek life isn't for me," it really doesn't matter how much money you've leeched off of them if you're a frat left with only 5 individuals.

Five members can still run a chapter

But I understand where you're coming from.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

My chapter has only had one person resign membership in our history, but he had no qualms returning his paraphernalia and ritual. Most actives don't turn in letters -- they stop being financial. And, like DrPhil said, our goal is to get them to become active again.

Interesting, our actives who "stopped being financial" would eventually have been expelled from the chapter.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Five members can still run a chapter

But I understand where you're coming from.

At the collegiate and alumnae/alumni/graduate levels. Don't I know it.

I also understand where she's coming from because small chapters aren't common in many GLOs; and they aren't common at many NPHC/LGLO/MCGLO/etc chapters. If you have a chapter that operates with 40+ members, it takes restructuring when you have fewer members.

At the same time, there are 50+ membered collegiate and alumnae/alumni/graduate chapters where only 10 people do the work. Different topic. Different thread.