Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

1 - The tail wags the dog with the "no ID" portion, since generally American citizens who are not driving are under no compulsion to carry ID (see: why national ID cards have failed), and AZ's law seeks to change that.

Probable cause doesn't mean you have to have to be 100% sure a crime is going on, there just has to be reasonable suspicion. If the police officer began his investigation based on that one item, the judge would likely throw out anything he found. But that item and other things? No license, can't speak English, acting nervous, won't make eye contact? Add a few together and you have probable cause.

[quote]1a - If it's a driving stop and the driver cannot produce ID, then obviously the police can proceed as they see fit . . . and they can already do that, so . . .

2 - You're not arguing what you think you are - saying "no ID" is probable cause to ask for proof of citizenship (essentially, ID) is circular at best. Upon what basis did the officer even STOP the person? That's the problem with "reasonable suspicion" clauses. The officer can't know there is no ID until after the stop.[

3 - Americans are under no compulsion to speak English in general. An officer stopping somebody because they are not speaking English is a farce. Once the stop is made, if the person is unable or unwilling to communicate, obviously the officer can proceed from there - but we're talking about probable cause to even get to that point.

If the law only requires documentation for people already subject to criminal/traffic stops, then it is not even worth enacting because it does nothing. The original wording seems to go far beyond this, allowing police to make stops based on "reasonable suspicion" . . . which seems awful at best.

My understanding is that the law requires that the suspect has already been detained for some other offense.