Gen Y: Educated and Jobless

[AGDee]

I don't think it's just parents pushing for this, I think it's all of society. For example, as part of NCLB, every high school junior in Michigan takes the ACT as their standardized test du jour. When they first announced that, I thought that was crazy. The ACT is geared toward college bound students, not ALL students. It is crazy that all juniors have to take it, even special ed kids who clearly are not able to succeed on it.

With regards to the unemployed though, we do have record unemployment all over. Of course this is affecting these new grads. There is only 1 job for every 5 people who are looking for one. I know plenty of baby boomers with masters degrees who are also unemployed.

I find it interesting, preciousjeni that you see education without experience as a no go because our districts here are trying to get the older teachers to retire (with early buy out packages) because they can hire 2 new grads for the same price as one older teacher. The more older teachers they can get to retire, the more staff they can keep/hire.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I find it interesting, preciousjeni that you see education without experience as a no go because our districts here are trying to get the older teachers to retire (with early buy out packages) because they can hire 2 new grads for the same price as one older teacher. The more older teachers they can get to retire, the more staff they can keep/hire.

I think she meant in general (someone educated in marketing/accounting/design can't get a job at a firm because s/he has no experience), not just in the education field.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I find it interesting, preciousjeni that you see education without experience as a no go because our districts here are trying to get the older teachers to retire (with early buy out packages) because they can hire 2 new grads for the same price as one older teacher. The more older teachers they can get to retire, the more staff they can keep/hire.

That's precisely why I said "in my area." It's different everywhere. My county is largely skilled working class (e.g.: construction, plumbers, electricians, nurses etc.). However, there is a lot of money here. The cause is the high level of political intervention and promotion. There is A LOT of money flowing through my area right now and our unemployment is relatively low compared to other parts of the country. But, the jobs being created are for contruction workers, plumbers, electricians, nurses, etc. because that's who is - and has been for decades - in power.

Still, anywhere you go, if you have a foot in the door to a skilled trade profession, you're likely to fare better than the academics in terms of job security.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I don't think it's just parents pushing for this, I think it's all of society. For example, as part of NCLB, every high school junior in Michigan takes the ACT as their standardized test du jour. When they first announced that, I thought that was crazy. The ACT is geared toward college bound students, not ALL students. It is crazy that all juniors have to take it, even special ed kids who clearly are not able to succeed on it.

Do they have to pay for it?? My fuzzy brain seems to remember having to pay to take the ACT and SAT.

If they do, that's whiggedy whack. No student should be forced to pay for something they aren't going to use in the least.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I find it interesting, preciousjeni that you see education without experience as a no go because our districts here are trying to get the older teachers to retire (with early buy out packages) because they can hire 2 new grads for the same price as one older teacher. The more older teachers they can get to retire, the more staff they can keep/hire.

It depends on the job/field. Many jobs that I am applying to or looking at want tons of experience and, without it, you don't get a second glance. However, in the last 2 (mental health-related) jobs I've had, the ones who had been there the longest were either pushed into retirement or, if they wouldn't go, were fired one way or another. I was safe because I was at the bottom or the totem pole but, in some places, I'd be the first to go.

ETA: Oops, I didn't see there was a new page of replies.

Oh and IIRC, aren't ALL of those tests (ACT, SAT...) geared toward students going to college?

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

That's precisely why I said "in my area." It's different everywhere. My county is largely skilled working class (e.g.: construction, plumbers, electricians, nurses etc.). However, there is a lot of money here. The cause is the high level of political intervention and promotion. There is A LOT of money flowing through my area right now and our unemployment is relatively low compared to other parts of the country. But, the jobs being created are for contruction workers, plumbers, electricians, nurses, etc. because that's who is - and has been for decades - in power.

Still, anywhere you go, if you have a foot in the door to a skilled trade profession, you're likely to fare better than the academics in terms of job security.

It is interesting to me how different it is in different places. The trades are hurting here just as much as everybody else. My step-brother is an electrician and all of his jobs have been out of state for the last two years because the builders stopped building, etc.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Do they have to pay for it?? My fuzzy brain seems to remember having to pay to take the ACT and SAT.

If they do, that's whiggedy whack. No student should be forced to pay for something they aren't going to use in the least.

No, the state pays for it. I believe they decided it was cheaper to pay for the ACT for every student than to pay for the development and grading of their own standardized test like they do for younger grade levels (we have the MEAP, Michigan Education Assessment Program for other grades). Interestingly, most students are actually college bound are taking the ACT twice.. once on their own dime to see what areas they need to focus on more and then once on the state's dime. Some take it once before the state test, some plan to take it again after the state test. I think my daughter wants to do the former. She wants to take it in December this year and then again when the school issues it in March.

Originally Posted by christiangirl

It depends on the job/field. Many jobs that I am applying to or looking at want tons of experience and, without it, you don't get a second glance. However, in the last 2 (mental health-related) jobs I've had, the ones who had been there the longest were either pushed into retirement or, if they wouldn't go, were fired one way or another. I was safe because I was at the bottom or the totem pole but, in some places, I'd be the first to go.

ETA: Oops, I didn't see there was a new page of replies.

Oh and IIRC, aren't ALL of those tests (ACT, SAT...) geared toward students going to college?

Yes, those were developed to be college aptitude tests. That's why I think it's crazy to have every student in the state take them. I can't imagine what our average ACT score for the state is going to be. I have a co-worker whose special ed daughter got a 9 on the ACT. Yes, a 9. As her friends were all comparing scores, she felt so disheartened that she decided she couldn't even attend a community college for a voc program when that was something she really probably could have done ok with. She's been a waitress for a year and a half when she really wanted to learn floral design. I know that's anecdotal and not a good measure overall, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been discouraging for more kids than just her.


ETA: We do still have to pay to have the scores sent to more colleges than the standard.. I don't recall how many you usually get automatically when you take the ACT. That will be something we have to look at.. soon!

[aggieAXO]

I think a 4 year degree is also not as valuable as it use to be. I majored in biomedical science-what can you do with that degree?-pretty much nothing-it is mainly a gateway to grad school. I have worked with several girls that have that degree (and did not make it to grad school) and they are techs working for 11-15$ an hour-same as the techs without any college education. One is thinking about going to chiropractor school.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

I think a 4 year degree is also not as valuable as it use to be. I majored in biomedical science-what can you do with that degree?-pretty much nothing-it is mainly a gateway to grad school. I have worked with several girls that have that degree (and did not make it to grad school) and they are techs working for 11-15$ an hour-same as the techs without any college education. One is thinking about going to chiropractor school.

I think that's an issue with your degree in particular, not with degrees in general. Some degrees are like that. That's not a new thing - one of my sisters (20 years ago) was a psych major and she knew going in she'd have to get a master's to get ANYWHERE in her field.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think that's an issue with your degree in particular, not with degrees in general. Some degrees are like that. That's not a new thing - one of my sisters (20 years ago) was a psych major and she knew going in she'd have to get a master's to get ANYWHERE in her field.

I agree. There are some majors where it is obvious what your career path will be (nursing, accounting, teaching, engineering) and then there are majors that, when I hear them, I think "And what are you going to BE when you grow up?"

There are pros and cons to both. For instance, after being an Occupational Therapist for 13 years I decided it was time to do something else. It required major re-training and now work on a Master's in a completely different field to keep moving forward. I was almost too specialized and it left me no other options, really. The proverbial "they" say that the average person has 3 careers over his/her lifetime now. Usually, that's going to require some major re-training. Even now, while I'm specializing in an IT field, I'm thinking about what I think my 3rd career will be.

And, I initially started working on a Master's in Clinical Psych 20 years ago and was realizing while working on it that without a PhD, I still wasn't really going to get to my end goal.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

I think a 4 year degree is also not as valuable as it use to be. I majored in biomedical science-what can you do with that degree?-pretty much nothing-it is mainly a gateway to grad school. I have worked with several girls that have that degree (and did not make it to grad school) and they are techs working for 11-15$ an hour-same as the techs without any college education. One is thinking about going to chiropractor school.

LVTs are way underpaid. IMO.