Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Do your numbers not contemplate the existence of probable cause to initiate a search at those traffic stops? You assume race is at the top of the list. Yet you do that without any evidence of that. Just a bunch of assumption.

I had my numbers wrong, here's a quote on the article based on the 2008 report

In response to complaints about racial profiling by police, law enforcement agencies in Illinois have been required to report on traffic stops since 2004. Every year, the report has found that minority drivers are asked to consent to unwarranted searches at a higher rate than whites, but that police are actually more likely to find contraband in consent searches with white drivers than minorities. The 2008 Traffic Stop Study annual report, released earlier this month, is no different.

The study found that minority drivers were 13% more likely to be stopped than whites, with blacks slightly more likely than Hispanics to be stopped. Blacks were three times more likely to be asked to consent to a search than whites; for Hispanics, that figure was 2.4 times. But contraband was found in only 15.4% of searches of minority-driven vehicles, compared to 24.7% of those with white drivers.

Here's the IDoT website

So the other answer is that minorities "look guiltier" but are more innocent. Which means the cops have a skewed idea of what "looking guilty" means, and it drives down racial lines in some way or another.

Illinois officers have to report the race of everyone they stop and the result of the stop, verbal warning, written warning, ticket, etc. Even after they get the numbers back every year, there doesn't appear to be much of a change in them.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I had my numbers wrong, here's a quote on the article based on the 2008 report


Here's the IDoT website

So the other answer is that minorities "look guiltier" but are more innocent. Which means the cops have a skewed idea of what "looking guilty" means, and it drives down racial lines in some way or another.

Illinois officers have to report the race of everyone they stop and the result of the stop, verbal warning, written warning, ticket, etc. Even after they get the numbers back every year, there doesn't appear to be much of a change in them.

ok, rounding this back to illegal immigration....

approximately 81 percent of illegal immigrants are of hispanic descent.

and of that 81 percent, almost 75 percent are from mexico.

meaning that approximately 7 million of the 12-13 million illegals in this country are from mexico.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by starang21

ok, rounding this back to illegal immigration....

approximately 81 percent of illegal immigrants are of hispanic descent.

and of that 81 percent, almost 75 percent are from mexico.

meaning that approximately 7 million of the 12-13 million illegals in this country are from mexico.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf

And while being hispanic is not probable cause, speaking only Spanish would be probably get you there.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And while being hispanic is not probable cause, speaking only Spanish would be probably get you there.

Why? A lot of Puerto Ricans for instance can't speak English to save their lives. Also remember that the United States does NOT have an official language.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Why? A lot of Puerto Ricans for instance can't speak English to save their lives. Also remember that the United States does NOT have an official language.

that still doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of the US legal population communicates in english. that's why you don't see street and traffic signs in spanish.

can't and won't are two different things. just because one chooses not to, doesn't mean they can't.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by starang21

that still doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of the US legal population communicates in english. that's why you don't see street and traffic signs in spanish.

can't and won't are two different things. just because one chooses not to, doesn't mean they can't.

I will not argue that English isn't the de facto national language of the United States. However that being said it holds no legal status in this country. So using the justification "He doesn't speak English, he must be illegal." doesn't make sense. And yes I do know that can't and won't aren't the same. But I also do know people who's control of English is near non existent and would probably be the same as most Mexicans who live near the border or have a lot of contact with Americans if not worst.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I will not argue that English isn't the de facto national language of the United States. However that being said it holds no legal status in this country. So using the justification "He doesn't speak English, he must be illegal." And Yes I do know that can't and won't aren't the same. But I also do know people who's control of English is near non existent and would probably be the same as most Mexicans who live near the border or have a lot of contact with Americans if not worst. So when I say there are Americans that can't communicate well in English, I do know what I ma talking about, especially the older generations.

it can certainly fall under reasonable suspicion.


again, can't and won't aren't the same thing. and can't communicate well is way different from can't communicate at all.

hence in order to become a naturalized citizen, one must have basic skills in the english language. the same with getting a green card.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Why? A lot of Puerto Ricans for instance can't speak English to save their lives. Also remember that the United States does NOT have an official language.

It's not illegal to smell like marijuana either, or get into a car after spilling a glass of whiskey on yourself--it's just going to get your car searched 100% of the time.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's not illegal to smell like marijuana either, or get into a car after spilling a glass of whiskey on yourself--it's just going to get your car searched 100% of the time.

I don't think smelling like alcohol or marijuana can be equated to looking hispanic or not speaking English.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I don't think smelling like alcohol or marijuana can be equated to looking hispanic or not speaking English.

Not speaking English is commonly associated with being illegally here. Smelling like marijuana is commonly associated with being under the influence or in possession. Smelling like whiskey is associated with being drunk.