Restrictions on wearing letters

[als463]

Originally Posted by agzg

But even NPC organizations do not make the smoking stipulation, and in many NPC organizations, stipulations like this appear in chapter bylaws.

For my chapter, according to the bylaws, I could not smoke without crossing my legs and had to hold the cigarette in my hand the whole time rather than hang it out of my mouth. No joke. No mention of whether or not I was allowed to smoke with my legs crossed and the cigarette in my hands if were wearing letters.

Debating rules like this makes no sense. If an org has a rule, nationally, then they do, and if they do not, it's just up to the chapters to decide what's best for them. End of story. Expecting every other org to follow your chapter's rules is stupid.

That is really interesting. It just goes to show how chapters and other GLOs have different rules.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by als463

That is really interesting. It just goes to show how chapters and other GLOs have different rules.

Knowing agzg's school, I kind of doubt that this rule was enforced very much. Sort of like the law that was on the books somewhere (for some reason, I think it might have actually been State College) about women not being allowed to wear overly large hats.

Originally Posted by DDDlady

At my school it was a campus panhellenic rule.

Holy shit. Seriously? Sieg Heil, Panhel. (And yes I know I just Godwined the thread.) Does Panhel make other rules regarding individuals' actions and appearance? This seems way over the top, even for the South. Panhel doesn't know what each group's letters stand for, how can they make rules regarding the wearing of them??

Oh, and for all the bashing of silly rushee remmie, she was correct in saying it's asinine to have rules about "OMG NO ____ IN LETTERS!" when everyone knows what group everyone is in anyway. But that's been stated approximately 20000000 times on here.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Knowing agzg's school, I kind of doubt that this rule was enforced very much. Sort of like the law that was on the books somewhere (for some reason, I think it might have actually been State College) about women not being allowed to wear overly large hats.

No it was never enforced. D will have my head for this (probably) but I have pictures of us openly mocking that rule.

I'm just saying, that was the only smoking rule we had. No other chapter on campus had a similar one.

[libelle]

I distinctly remember rules in our chapter bylaws that stated that we could neither drink beer out of the bottle nor walk around with a cigarette.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Yep. Dr. Phil is an insufferable bitch to me without fail.

Again, if I'm supposed to recognize this bitch's username prior to this thread, someone please tell me. It remembers me so congrats to the bitch. Awesome.

[Atalanta265]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

^^ I'm proud of her for speaking up, too. Unfortunately, it didn't make a difference, and it (of course) started a mild fight within the group. I wish there was something else I could tell her to do, but since the overwhelming majority of the group likes the fact that the sorority is represented in this way, I'm just kind of shrugging my shoulders on this one. And it's too bad.

Since it's causing problems within the chapter, could your sister seek help from her Nationals? They could help them either mitigate and come to a compromise like wearing the colors but not letters. or they might be able to look deeper into the bylaws and see if there's something hidden in there.

i wish her sisters would be more understanding. politics is such a touchy subject for most that it's almost like mixing business and pleasure.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Atalanta265

Since it's causing problems within the chapter, could your sister seek help from her Nationals? They could help them either mitigate and come to a compromise like wearing the colors but not letters. or they might be able to look deeper into the bylaws and see if there's something hidden in there.

That's an interesting suggestion. I don't know about other GLOs but Delta has chapter advisors and regional directors (and other local and regional components) in the "chain of command" so that such relatively minute matters won't reach the National level.**




**Unless it became a concern across chapters such that a national statement and/or mandate must be made. That is why we have policies and procedures regarding symbols and are told what we can and cannot do in reference to such things as politics.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

**Unless it became a concern across chapters such that a national statement and/or mandate must be made. That is why we have policies and procedures regarding symbols and are told what we can and cannot do in reference to such things as politics.

That really is the best way to proceed, rather than this foolishness of not wearing letters "in a disrespectful way" or whatever other superduper vague language is in most national NIC/NPC policies. Obviously a sister who thinks her candidate is the greatest thing since sliced bread isn't going to regard wearing letters while she passes out his fliers as "disrespecting" them.

Unfortunately, the OP's sister has already put herself in a very unpopular position and calling in nationals would likely just make it worse.

[Atalanta265]

Unfortunately, the OP's sister has already put herself in a very unpopular position and calling in nationals would likely just make it worse.[/QUOTE]That is true. This topic is tough because I know I don't like it when I feel my frat or letters are being represented negatively. Like, we don't drink in public while wearing letters. And I know how I feel when a brother or sister does it.

I hope she finds something in the bylaws that will work on her side.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Atalanta265

Unfortunately, the OP's sister has already put herself in a very unpopular position and calling in nationals would likely just make it worse.

That is true. This topic is tough because I know I don't like it when I feel my frat or letters are being represented negatively. Like, we don't drink in public while wearing letters. And I know how I feel when a brother or sister does it.

I hope she finds something in the bylaws that will work on her side.[/QUOTE]

Or she could just push for a new addition to the bylaws or code of standards for her chapter when they come up for review. If she's not the only one feeling this way the chapter might as well at least have a discussion on whether it's necessary to address letters-politics in their bylaws so that their bylaws committee can decide whether they need to start looking into a way to solve the problem or not. That's what I would do...as far as I know the chapter I belonged to didn't address politics, but situations where it would apply are probably few and far between so there's no need to add a bylaw, but on campuses where this situation will probably be repeated frequently the chapter should at least gauge the general feeling on the subject. It could be that only a couple of people are offended and then they might just have to suck it up, but if a large portion of the chapter wants to keep politics away from letters, it's time to find a solution.

The problem with associating letters with politics (whether directly, as in "XYZ supports candidate A, or indirectly as in Suzy Sorority has a formal t-shirt with her letters on at a political rally) is that "negative" is relative. I don't want my letters associated with any extremist views on either the right OR left, but I have sisters both collegian and alum that do have pretty extreme views and wouldn't view such connections as negative. I would be offended if my letters were associated with an event to support the banning of gay marriage, but some of my sisters would be just as offended if I wore a lettered shirt to an event supporting gay marriage. THAT's why it makes sense to me to just say no across the board, especially in chapters where members are very politically active and are noticing hurt feelings and resentment all around.

[Atalanta265]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

That is true. This topic is tough because I know I don't like it when I feel my fraternity or letters are being represented negatively. Like, we don't drink in public while wearing letters. And I know how I feel when a brother or sister does it.

I hope she finds something in the bylaws that will work on her side.

Or she could just push for a new addition to the bylaws or code of standards for her chapter when they come up for review. If she's not the only one feeling this way the chapter might as well at least have a discussion on whether it's necessary to address letters-politics in their bylaws so that their bylaws committee can decide whether they need to start looking into a way to solve the problem or not. That's what I would do...as far as I know the chapter I belonged to didn't address politics, but situations where it would apply are probably few and far between so there's no need to add a bylaw, but on campuses where this situation will probably be repeated frequently the chapter should at least gauge the general feeling on the subject. It could be that only a couple of people are offended and then they might just have to suck it up, but if a large portion of the chapter wants to keep politics away from letters, it's time to find a solution.

The problem with associating letters with politics (whether directly, as in "XYZ supports candidate A, or indirectly as in Suzy Sorority has a formal t-shirt with her letters on at a political rally) is that "negative" is relative. I don't want my letters associated with any extremist views on either the right OR left, but I have sisters both collegian and alum that do have pretty extreme views and wouldn't view such connections as negative. I would be offended if my letters were associated with an event to support the banning of gay marriage, but some of my sisters would be just as offended if I wore a lettered shirt to an event supporting gay marriage. THAT's why it makes sense to me to just say no across the board, especially in chapters where members are very politically active and are noticing hurt feelings and resentment all around.[/QUOTE]I agree that a change in bylaws would be best but in the event that the bylaw isn't passed a compromise should still be made among the sisters.

[agzg]

OMG PEOPLE FIX YOUR QUOTE TAGS.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Atalanta265

Or she could just push for a new addition to the bylaws or code of standards for her chapter when they come up for review. If she's not the only one feeling this way the chapter might as well at least have a discussion on whether it's necessary to address letters-politics in their bylaws so that their bylaws committee can decide whether they need to start looking into a way to solve the problem or not. That's what I would do...as far as I know the chapter I belonged to didn't address politics, but situations where it would apply are probably few and far between so there's no need to add a bylaw, but on campuses where this situation will probably be repeated frequently the chapter should at least gauge the general feeling on the subject. It could be that only a couple of people are offended and then they might just have to suck it up, but if a large portion of the chapter wants to keep politics away from letters, it's time to find a solution.

The problem with associating letters with politics (whether directly, as in "XYZ supports candidate A, or indirectly as in Suzy Sorority has a formal t-shirt with her letters on at a political rally) is that "negative" is relative. I don't want my letters associated with any extremist views on either the right OR left, but I have sisters both collegian and alum that do have pretty extreme views and wouldn't view such connections as negative. I would be offended if my letters were associated with an event to support the banning of gay marriage, but some of my sisters would be just as offended if I wore a lettered shirt to an event supporting gay marriage. THAT's why it makes sense to me to just say no across the board, especially in chapters where members are very politically active and are noticing hurt feelings and resentment all around.

I agree that a change in bylaws would be best but in the event that the bylaw isn't passed a compromise should still be made among the sisters.[/QUOTE]

Definitely. I guess my point would be that the sister that is offended should at least bring it up to the chapter council and then if they think it merits discussion with the chapter that's what they should do before contacting anyone outside the chapter.

[Drolefille]

FIX YOUR QUOTES, ALL OF YOU!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

OMG PEOPLE FIX YOUR QUOTE TAGS.

Originally Posted by Drolefile

FIX YOUR QUOTES, ALL OF YOU!

LOL.

(I was going to mess up the above quotes but messed up quotes are too annoying to do on purpose.)