Thinking of rushing..Terrified of hazing

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

(Yeah I'm dodging the kitchen.) I can understand why someone comes to ask 'people' rather than read the websites. Particularly since hazing happens despite what our websites say, so asking "what really happens" is pretty legit, IMO, and not spoonfeeding info about our individual orgs.

I figure if I can spend an evening snarking someone I can spare some time to answer a question. Obviously no one should be expected to, because we come here for our own reasons.

Those people should be "real" people as opposed to usernames, but I get what you're saying.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by NotYetGreek

I am considering attending University of Idaho and rushing a sorority. I joined Greek Chat so I could browse the forums about hazing. I want nothing to do with hazing or any such incidents. That is the one thing that is holding me back from rushing. I understand from reading these posts and news articles that most hazing goes on during the pledging process. Also, that most hazed students were actually doing the acts their abusers asked them to do. If someone tries to leave a dangerous situation are they harmed? Or are they allowed to freely leave?

Does anyone know if University of Idaho still has problems with hazing? Do most universities have hazing problems? Should I not even rush? I am so terrified of this, so any serious information or experiences would be appreciated.

Are there any tips anyone has to look out for early signs that may foreshadow hazing that I should look for before I am in a dangerous situation?

I think it is good to be aware of hazing. No Greek organizations that I know of endorse hazing. If any hazing is done it is usually by a couple of bad apples not the whole group. I certainly wouldn't let this hold you back from participating in recruitment. I don't know any thing about the University you site or the groups there. I don't think there are any warning signs if a group is going to haze you. I would treat sorority life like your own life, if some thing is going on that makes you feel uncomfortable leave and tell some one.

[NotYetGreek]

I asked this question because it IS NOT a simply answered question. Some posters are acting like I'm stupid for asking this, yet there are MANY threads in the Risk Management section about chapters being suspended and closed for hazing allegations. As for not doing enough, or the right, research, many of the articles are reporting deaths. I don't think you can exaggerate that. Either someone died, or they didn't.

I'm not asking for people to beg me to rush. As someone who wants to join a sorority for the social, academic, and philanthropy positives, I asked for information and opinions on the serious matter. Not for reassurance. I don't think I deserve to be patronized over a sincere concern.

If this was a non-issue there would not be so much debate over it.

Thank you to those who took the time to seriously reply.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by NotYetGreek

I asked this question because it IS NOT a simply answered question. Some posters are acting like I'm stupid for asking this, yet there are MANY threads in the Risk Management section about chapters being suspended and closed for hazing allegations. As for not doing enough, or the right, research, many of the articles are reporting deaths. I don't think you can exaggerate that. Either someone died, or they didn't.

I'm not asking for people to beg me to rush. As someone who wants to join a sorority for the social, academic, and philanthropy positives, I asked for information and opinions on the serious matter. Not for reassurance. I don't think I deserve to be patronized over a sincere concern.

If this was a non-issue there would not be so much debate over it.

Thank you to those who took the time to seriously reply.

Ehh...you're not the only aspirant/PNM being discussed. We just happened to talk about this in a thread you've created.

But, as you've stated, there are plenty of resources out there. As you've seen, our organizations don't condone hazing (as evidenced by chapters closing, etc), but there are some bad apples in the bunch.

You (should) know what to do if hazing occurs. Whether or not you rush is up to you.

[KSUViolet06]

Really though?

Does hazing exist? Unfortunately, yes.

Do we do everything we can to prevent it within our orgs? Yes.

Does it happen everywhere? Nope.

What can you do about it should it happen to you? Choose not to partcipate.

It happens. However, those chapters that do so are not a representation of the entire Greek community.

What you see here is not something that happens in EVERY chapter. For every hazing incident, there are pobably hundreds of chapters who wouldn't dream of participating in those types of things.

Either go through recruitment and see for yourself, or don't.

I really fail to see what you are looking for people to tell you...

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Those people should be "real" people as opposed to usernames, but I get what you're saying.

Ideally yes, but since many PNMs hit recruitment in their first weeks of school they may not have the time to make connections and, for example, my mom's experience at XYZ at Large State U are not necessarily relevant to my experience in ABC at Small private U and so on.

I like you, kid. I may just hire you after all

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Ideally yes, but since many PNMs hit recruitment in their first weeks of school they may not have the time to make connections and, for example, my mom's experience at XYZ at Large State U are not necessarily relevant to my experience in ABC at Small private U and so on.

I like you, kid. I may just hire you after all

Bolded is likely where much of the disconnect is coming from. I wasn't really thinking about the NPC recruitment model when typing my responses. At least the OP (Hey, OP -- NOW I'm talking about you) can see different sides of the coin.

And hook it up with the vision insurance and you've got a deal lol

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Ggirl617

That's not a good reason.

It obviously is to me. The rest of your post had nothing to do with mine.

ETA: NotYetGreek isn't even smart enough to just take the responses and be quiet. Another simpleton aspirant.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Bolded is likely where much of the disconnect is coming from. I wasn't really thinking about the NPC recruitment model when typing my responses. At least the OP (Hey, OP -- NOW I'm talking about you) can see different sides of the coin.

And hook it up with the vision insurance and you've got a deal lol

Aye, that's why I think some of this is NPC-style vs. NPHC-style perspectives.

Ooh, vision. Hmm ok I can swing it but you're on your own for dental.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by NotYetGreek

I asked this question because it IS NOT a simply answered question. Some posters are acting like I'm stupid for asking this, yet there are MANY threads in the Risk Management section about chapters being suspended and closed for hazing allegations. As for not doing enough, or the right, research, many of the articles are reporting deaths. I don't think you can exaggerate that. Either someone died, or they didn't.

Did you look and see how many of the deaths involved NPC sororities? Or did you just look at the Greek letters?

As other people pointed out, the threshhold of what's considered "hazing" for many NPC groups is beyond ridiculously low.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I didn't know Idaho had a problem with hazing. You seem to be a little too paranoid. Sororities, in general, do not have a real big problem with hazing at this time. The risk is too great and most Nationals have a zero tolerance for this type behavior. I suggest you not join a sorority as you seem way too weak.

I think that VandalSquirrel might be able to clarify if she is still around.

There is another poster here who is a current collegiate member, I'm an alumna, but still in the vicinity. If there were hazing issues on this campus they'd be all over the news, and I know the student media paper would print any incidents. Do we have risk management issues, yes, as do all colleges and even people aged 18-22 all over the US and Canada. In regards to fraternities ahve I seen behavior i find borderline with my NPC lens? Yes, and there have been groups who have addressed issues that were crossing the line and handled them internally before it became a huge issue and people were filing law suits or dying.

If there was a group hazing at UI they'd be exposed and handled with a quickness, and in my time here I have never heard of nor seen sorority hazing. Trust this is a small campus and it wouldn't be kept a secret. Not to slam my nearby neighbors at Wazzu, but they have had sorority issues with hazing, not us. You can call the Dean of Students Office, Bruce Pitman would be happy to talk to you and I'm sure they'd transfer you to the newish (as of last summer) Greek Advisor, Matt Kurz, as well. You can reach both of their offices at 208-885-6757 bruce Pitman at askjoe@uidaho.edu or greek@uidaho.edu

I am refraining from saying anything else other than GO VANDALS!

[AOII Angel]

If you are really worried about death, realize that the number 1 cause of death in hazing incidents is alcohol poisoning. Don't drink more alcohol than you are used to drinking. NPC sororities do not have a strong history of hazing with resulting death, so I'm not sure where you got this idea. Unfortunately, when men haze, the result can be more deadly. For women, hazing usually involves more psychological forms of abuse.

When you go through recruitment, if you hear that a group hazes, realize that where there is smoke, there is probably fire. If you chose to pledge that group, you may have to deal with hazing. Most likely, this will be psychological or verbal abuse, but you do NOT have to take it. Contact your Greek Advisor or call the Hazing hotline. Hazing only has power when the people being hazed let the hazers have power over them. Sorority membership isn't important enough to put yourself at risk if it comes to that, so just walk away.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by NotYetGreek

I asked this question because it IS NOT a simply answered question. Some posters are acting like I'm stupid for asking this, yet there are MANY threads in the Risk Management section about chapters being suspended and closed for hazing allegations. As for not doing enough, or the right, research, many of the articles are reporting deaths. I don't think you can exaggerate that. Either someone died, or they didn't.

I'm not asking for people to beg me to rush. As someone who wants to join a sorority for the social, academic, and philanthropy positives, I asked for information and opinions on the serious matter. Not for reassurance. I don't think I deserve to be patronized over a sincere concern.

If this was a non-issue there would not be so much debate over it.

Thank you to those who took the time to seriously reply.

Even among my friends who attended school at some of the most "old school" institutions, I rarely hear of hazing and have never heard of any dangerous hazing in "real life" (meaning not from anyone I know personally). It's unlikely you'll be hazed, but the bottom line is that you can always remove yourself from an uncomfortable situation. I don't think it makes sense to avoid rushing for fear of being hazed because it's very unlikely you'll experience hazing, especially dangerous hazing. Go ahead and rush. If you pledge a group that hazes (including mental/emotional abuse..it isn't just physical) you can contact their national/international office as well as the NPC and the Greek Advisor at your school...and then quit.

I think what most people here are getting at is that you probably will not be hazed, and that the extreme incidents you read about here are few and far between. The fact is athletic teams haze, fraternities haze, sororities haze...groups of any kind can haze, but usually the individual groups that do are in the minority. Don't miss out for fear of these incidents. Just keep your eyes open and if you start to feel uncomfortable, find an older member you trust and ask them what the deal is. Then you'll be able to decide whether or not you want to stay with the group. Obviously if you find yourself in a situation where real harm (again either mental/emotional or physical) is being done, simply remove yourself and take proper action to help prevent other women from being in the same boat. But you are far more likely to have a pleasant experience rushing and fond memories of your chapter after you leave college than you are to experience hazing.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

It's unlikely you'll be hazed...I think what most people here are getting at is that you probably will not be hazed...but usually the individual groups that do are in the minority.

General statement:
I don't think it's wise for Greeks (regardless of the council and conference) to assume and therefore tell aspirants this. We only know what will happen in the (collegiate or alumnae) chapters that we are involved in.

And I don't think it's true that (again, across council and conference) the collegiate chapters (and football teams, etc.) that haze are in the minority. Many GLOs' policies generally operate under a broad definition of hazing as to capture all sorts of "unofficial rites of passage" that members can come up with.

PNMs/aspirants who are grown and mature enough to pursue membership can also accept such honesty and potential for harsh reality.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

General statement:
I don't think it's wise for Greeks (regardless of the council and conference) to assume and therefore tell aspirants this. We only know what will happen in the (collegiate or alumnae) chapters that we are involved in.

And I don't think it's true that (again, across council and conference) the collegiate chapters (and football teams, etc.) that haze are in the minority. Many GLOs' policies generally operate under a broad definition of hazing as to capture all sorts of "unofficial rites of passage" that members can come up with.

PNMs/aspirants who are grown and mature enough to pursue membership can also accept such honesty and potential for harsh reality.

"As of February 12, 2010, the number of recorded hazing/pledging/rushing-related deaths in fraternities and sororities stands at 96 - 90 males and 6 females. *"

Since the OP specifically referred to death and other extreme measures of hazing, this is an important statistic to consider. I have not found a reputable link that gives a current statistic on specifically Greek hazing incidents, but hazingprevention.org, where my statistic came from, says that 55% of students in college have been hazed...in a club/athletic team/other organization. So since by this definition we all had over a 50% chance of being hazed regardless of the organization we joined, I stand by my statement that worrying about dying or being severely mentally/emotionally/physically shouldn't be a deterrent in deciding to rush. For someone that appears to be as aware of, and against, hazing as the OP seems to be, it stands to reason that they would be able to recognize hazing if it occurred, remove themselves from the situation, and hopefully follow through by reporting the hazing.