Nun excommunicated for allowing abortion to save the life of a mother

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The impression I get is that locally there was some sort of fuss about it and that the bishop there is not just obviously pro-life but like 'don't take communion if you voted for a pro-choice politician' pro-life. (which btw is bullshit.) So combine those two and i suspect you would have gotten the fuss whether or not she was a sister but it makes the whole thing all the more dramatic. It may have been that she didn't go to confession immediately after this situation either... though not sure that even the bishop would know that one way or the other.

Ugh politics in the Church. The whole point of an announcement is supposed to be more of a heads up to not follow the lead of somebody who is not in communion with the Church, not to hold them up as an example.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

*blinks* Holy disappearing post, Batman.

What in the samhell?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

What in the samhell?

Dunno, UGAalum posted and it went *poof* by the time I replied.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Dunno, UGAalum posted and it went *poof* by the time I replied.

I saw her long post. I didn't think to QFP. LOL.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Dunno, UGAalum posted and it went *poof* by the time I replied.

Sorry. I posted before I read the whole thread and I basically just duplicated something about excommunication that you said on the first page. It didn't occur to me that my post was up long enough for anyone to have read it.

Sorry.

As far as "if you want it to be", you're probably right in terms of being true to your conscience and invalid confession. But I don't feel as much heartache about the idea of wanting to be in full communion with the church if you aren't down with its teaching in actuality. There's got to be some room for Catholics to sort of look at the church as horribly flawed human political institution while still loving the sacraments, but if you don't really accept what the church teaches about medical procedures and pregnancy, especially if you are a director of care in a Catholic medical facility, how horrible should excommunication from the church really be? How in communion were you before the decree?

I'm not judging the nun particularly, but I feel like her relationship to the church is pretty much in her hands, rather than that she was victimized or punished unfairly.

[knight_shadow]

random tangent/

I wonder if there's every been an instance where someone was able to return to the church after being excommunicated. If, for instance, the bishop took another look at the situation and decided that the punishment was too harsh, could the nun be reinstated (not even sure if that's the right term)?

/tangent

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

random tangent/

I wonder if there's every been an instance where someone was able to return to the church after being excommunicated. If, for instance, the bishop took another look at the situation and decided that the punishment was too harsh, could the nun be reinstated (not even sure if that's the right term)?

/tangent

To be brought back into communion with the church, generally you just have to go to confession and complete your penance. What the penance may be is a different matter.

So you have to agree that you did wrong and repent. Meanwhile you have to continue to fulfill all of your obligations, including attending Mass (otherwise you'll need to confess that too) but you cannot receive communion.

If she's kicked from her order that's another issue altogether and I have no idea if that is reversible.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

To be brought back into communion with the church, generally you just have to go to confession and complete your penance. What the penance may be is a different matter.

So you have to agree that you did wrong and repent. Meanwhile you have to continue to fulfill all of your obligations, including attending Mass (otherwise you'll need to confess that too) but you cannot receive communion.

If she's kicked from her order that's another issue altogether and I have no idea if that is reversible.

I get the feeling that she doesn't think she did the wrong thing which may lie at the heart of the problem.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I get the feeling that she doesn't think she did the wrong thing which may lie at the heart of the problem.

She might. Even though she made the hard decision, she might really be regretting it and not just because she got 'caught.' After the anger and everything dies down, she might indeed go to confession and make penance and truly mean it.

I really hate that this is where the Church is right now.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

random tangent/

I wonder if there's every been an instance where someone was able to return to the church after being excommunicated. If, for instance, the bishop took another look at the situation and decided that the punishment was too harsh, could the nun be reinstated (not even sure if that's the right term)?

/tangent

Canon Law is its own complete and operative legal system. God knows... (maybe literally?)

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

To be brought back into communion with the church, generally you just have to go to confession and complete your penance. What the penance may be is a different matter.

So you have to agree that you did wrong and repent. Meanwhile you have to continue to fulfill all of your obligations, including attending Mass (otherwise you'll need to confess that too) but you cannot receive communion.

If she's kicked from her order that's another issue altogether and I have no idea if that is reversible.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Kevin

Canon Law is its own complete and operative legal system. God knows... (maybe literally?)

iChuckled.

/tangent

[Drolefille]

Oh, and technically you don't have to be declared excommunicated, that's just making it official. It just means being out of communion with the Church and therefore when she made the decision she was 'automatically' excommunicated.

It's just becomes a pronouncement because usually the people who did something "wrong" don't think it was wrong so they "need" to be told.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Oh, and technically you don't have to be declared excommunicated, that's just making it official. It just means being out of communion with the Church and therefore when she made the decision she was 'automatically' excommunicated.

It's just becomes a pronouncement because usually the people who did something "wrong" don't think it was wrong so they "need" to be told.

So basically every time you sin you are excommunicated until you go to confession and do your penance? You just don't have a priest declaring it to the world that you've been excommunicated for having dirty thoughts about your boss!?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So basically every time you sin you are excommunicated until you go to confession and do your penance? You just don't have a priest declaring it to the world that you've been excommunicated for having dirty thoughts about your boss!?

No it has to be something bad enough to get that label. Otherwise you're just a sinner.

Although technically, you're not supposed to receive communion without receiving confession pretty much immediately before. Used to be people only got communion once a year and same with confession. Now it's more relaxed and there's a point in the Mass where (at least so I was taught) any tiny little sins you've accrued are forgiven.

So excommunication is like the big punishment and is almost always accrued from when you do this big bad thing. There's an announcement generally when it's a public figure/action/big fuss about it. Confessing is a remedy but not just for something big like excommunication, but also for thinking dirty things about your boss (tsk tsk!).

Priests and nuns have to do a bit more, re-promise obedience, submit a statement to the head of their diocese/order etc.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So basically every time you sin you are excommunicated until you go to confession and do your penance? You just don't have a priest declaring it to the world that you've been excommunicated for having dirty thoughts about your boss!?

According the The Wiki, there are 8 instances where latae sententiae excommunication occurs:

• an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic;
• a person who throws away the consecrated Eucharistic species or takes and retains them for a sacrilegious purpose;
• a person who uses physical force against the Pope;
• a priest who uses confession as a pretext to solicit the confessor to break the commandment against adultery;
• a bishop who ordains someone a bishop without a pontifical mandate, and the person who receives the ordination from him;
• a confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal of confession;
• a person who procures a completed abortion; and
• accomplices who are not named in a law prescribing latae sententiae excommunication but without whose assistance the violation of the law would not have been committed.