White flight? Suburbs lose young whites to cities

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Yeah, I forgot, your daddy will protect you.

Hold on tight to his skirts, his money will keep you warm.

Gosh you have no clues...none.

I can't waste anymore time with you.

For some reason, these threads always end up with you bashing me personally for whatever reason. As if my excellent financial security, good job, great wife, nice yard, meager trust fund, well behaved dog, etc. have a damn thing to do with anything here.

Tell me this, o relative of a victim of gentrification, what did your mother do to help stave off the criminal element in her neighborhood? No doubt she raised good kids, , but aside from that, Anything?

What have you done?

You did nothing, then blamed the development companies for taking advantage of a strong demand for urban housing and depressed property values... As if you couldn't or shouldn't have seen that coming thirty years ago.

I guess it boils down to this -- the same folks who you apparently think of as victims are folks I think are deserving of their situations. They should have fought the conditions which led to the blight or they should have moved out before their property values were dramatically affected. That's the reality of "white flight," a nasty term which is easier to say than "middle class exodus" or "non-criminals not wishing to live near criminals." In most cases, you're talking about homeowners who in retrospect have made excellent decisions to get out while the gettin' was good.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

For some reason, these threads always end up with you bashing me personally for whatever reason. As if my excellent financial security, good job, great wife, nice yard, meager trust fund, well behaved dog, etc. have a damn thing to do with anything here.

Tell me this, o relative of a victim of gentrification, what did your mother do to help stave off the criminal element in her neighborhood? No doubt she raised good kids, , but aside from that, Anything?

What have you done?

You did nothing, then blamed the development companies for taking advantage of a strong demand for urban housing and depressed property values... As if you couldn't or shouldn't have seen that coming thirty years ago.

I guess it boils down to this -- the same folks who you apparently think of as victims are folks I think are deserving of their situations. They should have fought the conditions which led to the blight or they should have moved out before their property values were dramatically affected. That's the reality of "white flight," a nasty term which is easier to say than "middle class exodus" or "non-criminals not wishing to live near criminals." In most cases, you're talking about homeowners who in retrospect have made excellent decisions to get out while the gettin' was good.

You. have. no. clue.

You have no idea what my people went through trying to maintain a property in that area that Johns Hopkins was all too happy to buy up.

You need to stay in your lane on this because you don't have any idea at all how things work in Baltimore and larger cities in general, about how Baltimore is ill prepared in handling criminal elements and moreso how they play the shell game with people.


I laugh at you hollering about "well, common citizens should band together to fight crime...that'll fix it."

Yes people SHOULD but for more than painfully obvious reasons (one being police ineptitude along with apathy and the other being FEAR of the criminal element) regular citizens don't have the luxury of expecting the police to help.

Why do I keep fucking with you? Because you are clueless. And you are content to live in your blindness because as you say "It will never happen."

And yes, I wish for bad things to happen to you because maybe it will open your eyes to show you that LIFE isn't as cut and dry as you make it especially when you get to benefit off of someone else's work to see to your blindness.

As they say, pride comes before the fall

I guess these people should have moved too huh?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

You. have. no. clue.

You have no idea what my people went through trying to maintain a property in that area that Johns Hopkins was all too happy to buy up.

You need to stay in your lane on this because you don't have any idea at all how things work in Baltimore and larger cities in general, about how Baltimore is ill prepared in handling criminal elements and moreso how they play the shell game with people.


I laugh at you hollering about "well, common citizens should band together to fight crime...that'll fix it."

Yes people SHOULD but for more than painfully obvious reasons (one being police ineptitude along with apathy and the other being FEAR of the criminal element) regular citizens don't have the luxury of expecting the police to help.

Why do I keep fucking with you? Because you are clueless. And you are content to live in your blindness because as you say "It will never happen."

And yes, I wish for bad things to happen to you because maybe it will open your eyes to show you that LIFE isn't as cut and dry as you make it especially when you get to benefit off of someone else's work to see to your blindness.

As they say, pride comes before the fall

I guess these people should have moved too huh?

Yeah, I don't think people realize that Hopkins owns half of Baltimore City and when they want to expand they just move more people out.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

You. have. no. clue.

You have no idea what my people went through trying to maintain a property in that area that Johns Hopkins was all too happy to buy up.

You need to stay in your lane on this because you don't have any idea at all how things work in Baltimore and larger cities in general, about how Baltimore is ill prepared in handling criminal elements and moreso how they play the shell game with people.

Until those people are willing to assist law enforcement in dealing with the criminal element within, they'll continue to be part of that shell game. They can deal with it or move. It's their choice.

I laugh at you hollering about "well, common citizens should band together to fight crime...that'll fix it."

I've seen it work. And you mischaracterize. I said cooperate with law enforcement to report on, provide evidence and eliminate crime. In other words, the "snitches get stitches" crowd is no longer tolerated, parents don't raise their kids to not trust or cooperate with law enforcement, cultural change. Unless that happens, "your people" deserve whatever they get.

Why do I keep fucking with you? Because you are clueless. And you are content to live in your blindness because as you say "It will never happen."

And yes, I wish for bad things to happen to you because maybe it will open your eyes to show you that LIFE isn't as cut and dry as you make it especially when you get to benefit off of someone else's work to see to your blindness.

As they say, pride comes before the fall

Ah, 'cuz I don't come from the mean streets of an east coast city, I'm incapable of forming an opinion? Or at least forming an opinion which differs from yours, which is the only correct take on the subject?

Life IS as cut and dry as that. Folks reap what they sow, and if they sow crime and blight, or at least they do nothing and watch the world around them go to hell, then that's what they get to reap. That's justice.

I guess these people should have moved too huh?

No, that proves how pathetic and cowardly the people of that neighborhood are. Only ONE family stood up to the drug dealers? Please. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than that -- especially if the police are as inept as you say. Hell, why would anyone want to even live there near neighbors who just don't give two shits about drug dealers conducting business openly? If that's acceptable, I think I can understand why a company would want to move everyone out in order to redevelop and why the city would do everything in its power to make that happen.

I'm a member of my HOA, I attend quarterly meetings, we have a neighborhood watch, we've taken measures to make it inconvenient for the nearby Section 8ers to access our neighborhood by building high fences around ourselves, we don't allow broken down cars, overgrown lawns, loud noise, or any of that. It's not tolerated.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Until those people are willing to assist law enforcement in dealing with the criminal element within, they'll continue to be part of that shell game. They can deal with it or move. It's their choice.



I've seen it work. And you mischaracterize. I said cooperate with law enforcement to report on, provide evidence and eliminate crime. In other words, the "snitches get stitches" crowd is no longer tolerated, parents don't raise their kids to not trust or cooperate with law enforcement, cultural change. Unless that happens, "your people" deserve whatever they get.



Ah, 'cuz I don't come from the mean streets of an east coast city, I'm incapable of forming an opinion? Or at least forming an opinion which differs from yours, which is the only correct take on the subject?

Life IS as cut and dry as that. Folks reap what they sow, and if they sow crime and blight, or at least they do nothing and watch the world around them go to hell, then that's what they get to reap. That's justice.



No, that proves how pathetic and cowardly the people of that neighborhood are. Only ONE family stood up to the drug dealers? Please. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than that -- especially if the police are as inept as you say. Hell, why would anyone want to even live there near neighbors who just don't give two shits about drug dealers conducting business openly? If that's acceptable, I think I can understand why a company would want to move everyone out in order to redevelop and why the city would do everything in its power to make that happen.

I'm a member of my HOA, I attend quarterly meetings, we have a neighborhood watch, we've taken measures to make it inconvenient for the nearby Section 8ers to access our neighborhood by building high fences around ourselves, we don't allow broken down cars, overgrown lawns, loud noise, or any of that. It's not tolerated.

Wow...so you have all the answers huh?

Your opinions are correct hmmm?

Why don't you try moving out of that comfort zone of yours and see if those answers are so cut and dry as it seems somewhere else and I guarantee you they are not.

I am laughing at the fact also that you 'jailed' yourself in to keep out "Section 8ers"....I wonder if that's the only problem people you are worried about. Funnier still is that mine isn't and we have no issue with "Section 8ers" or anyone else in our neighborhood.

Get back to me in about 5 years and let me know how that's working out for you, 'smart guy'.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Wow...so you have all the answers huh?

Your opinions are correct hmmm?

Why don't you try moving out of that comfort zone of yours and see if those answers are so cut and dry as it seems somewhere else and I guarantee you they are not.

I am laughing at the fact also that you 'jailed' yourself in to keep out "Section 8ers"....I wonder if that's the only problem people you are worried about. Funnier still is that mine isn't and we have no issue with "Section 8ers" or anyone else in our neighborhood.

Get back to me in about 5 years and let me know how that's working out for you, 'smart guy'.

Do you always lose debates like this?

This is pretty pathetic.

You did...go to college right? You're not some sort of alumni initiate with a University of Phoenix degree or something..right?

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Do you always lose debates like this?

This is pretty pathetic.

You did...go to college right? You're not some sort of alumni initiate with a University of Phoenix degree or something..right?

I ask myself the same question about you with some of the erroneous racial garbage I've seen you post.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I ask myself the same question about you with some of the erroneous racial garbage I've seen you post.

Care to enumerate? I don't quite remember anything that has been specifically racial?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Wow...so you have all the answers huh?

Your opinions are correct hmmm?

Why don't you try moving out of that comfort zone of yours and see if those answers are so cut and dry as it seems somewhere else and I guarantee you they are not.

I am laughing at the fact also that you 'jailed' yourself in to keep out "Section 8ers"....I wonder if that's the only problem people you are worried about. Funnier still is that mine isn't and we have no issue with "Section 8ers" or anyone else in our neighborhood.

Get back to me in about 5 years and let me know how that's working out for you, 'smart guy'.

Prior to the fences, there were lots of burglaries and non-violent crimes. After the fence, those things went way down. It's hard to imagine these things are not related.

But yeah, Section 8ers do tend to commit more crimes, violent and otherwise than your average suburban soccer mom. Seems pretty "cut and dry" to me.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Prior to the fences, there were lots of burglaries and non-violent crimes. After the fence, those things went way down. It's hard to imagine these things are not related.

But yeah, Section 8ers do tend to commit more crimes, violent and otherwise than your average suburban soccer mom. Seems pretty "cut and dry" to me.

And I don't know if you have been keeping up....it's not just Section 8 people who are a part of the criminal element nowadays.

But then you might want to go back and review this thread (another wrong end for you BTW) to understand when people are backed into a corner, some do not have the means or know how to fight their way out.

You have to take into account the area OUTSIDE of your fence. Your fence still only counts as a temporary solution to a problem that is being ignored. What do you do about what goes on inside of your fence (and BTW I actually SERVE ON my HOA board ...a bit more different that actually just going to quarterly meetings) with people who cannot keep up with assessments, security (you guys got a fence, good for you...fences can be hopped over), fielding questions about refinancing, landscaping, architectural requests, homeowners who for many many reasons decided to rent their homes out or worse yet, just simply move while the house just sits there (still being paid for yes). I'm sure that not everyone that lives inside of this magical fence is as well off as you and if this is the case, you probably couldn't tell; it's that "Keeping up with appearances" thing.

You probably have not experienced that yet but then also remember you have to eventually come outside of your fence and as I have said repeatedly, your city may have the resources to deal with the sort of change that you describe but not every area has that ability to do so whether you want to blame it on the people or the money that is being utilized.
Eventually, enough people will not want (or be able) to continually to pay for resources that kept these elements out and choose to move elsewhere and guess what, you are right back at square one.

You just can't throw money at the gentrification problem and expect for it to be permanently solved especially since most who are throwing the money aren't the ones really digging into the layers to truly examine the overall effects of trying to fix urbanization through gentrification.

The only thing you are right about is that it's a gamble but the one thing you have truly failed to answer and grasp is how this is not a win/win situation

You may want to also see this article... your city isn't mentioned by the way.