Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Someone's being a lady today

My womanhood is not contingent upon being a lady and my ladyness is not contingent upon calling you a bitch. Remember that next time you post to me.

Back to the thread.

[DaemonSeid]

catfight.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

My womanhood is not contingent upon being a lady and my ladyness is not contingent upon calling you a bitch. Remember that next time you post to me.

Back to the thread.

Just keep in mind, when you post a bitchy post, you're getting one back. Again, don't post them if you can't handle getting them back. Have a good one!

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So sad. Don't think making the drug dealers carry their immigration papers will help stop them, though. Which I'm sure is your point, Maria.

Thank you, Angela. Complex, troubling, complicated... walls and papers aren't going to solve the problems.

But, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

On NPR last night I heard the higher ups did NOT support it, but in general the actual officers did. I didn't catch the title/name of the person being interviewed, though, so I don't know if they know what they're talking about or not.

Thanks.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Just keep in mind, when you post a bitchy post, you're getting one back. Again, don't post them if you can't handle getting them back. Have a good one!

Shut up, bitch.

In addition to Al Sharpton's protest, there are other protests in the works. I read this article http://latindispatch.com/2010/04/28/...t-arizona-law/ and hope that people on both sides aren't getting lost in the sauce.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

Thank you, Angela. Complex, troubling, complicated... walls and papers aren't going to solve the problems.

But, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I think Kevin really started getting into the meat of the problem, but he didn't delve into the whole world of the "war on drugs". No little bandaid will help that issue no matter how badly we might wish it would. I really do feel for those ranchers on the border who have drug dealers running right through their property. What can they do?

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Shut up, bitch.

In addition to Al Sharpton's protest, there are other protests in the works. I read this article http://latindispatch.com/2010/04/28/...t-arizona-law/ and hope that people on both sides aren't getting lost in the sauce.

I mean really?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I mean really?

What's wrong with immigrants staging a protest? I assume the legal immigrants are the ones protesting.

[DaemonSeid]

Meanwhile, John McCain is instigating this in the District

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

RC, I haven't been to Boston, MA, but do you guys really have an illegal problem up there? This is an issue for which many of the negative aspects do not receive media coverage except through the unreliable right-wing fringe media. Here in Oklahoma, the problem isn't so bad. I deal with illegals, they're good folks, mostly pay payroll taxes under a fake SSN and above all and most importantly, they pay their attorney's fees.... every damn dime. Never had a bad experience. I understand that back home, attorneys can have them thrown in prison for failure to pay their fees, so that might be a cultural thing (wouldn't that be nice?).

At any rate, as you move South, the violence, drugs and kidnapping problems grow much, much worse. Maricopa County is pretty much an immigration war zone. Phoenix leads the world in the number of kidnappings per capita. The hospitals and social service programs are stretched thin, and no, I really doubt there are enough payroll taxes coming in from illegals to cover those expenses.

To reduce this issue to a racial/racist issue is maybe partially accurate, but it ain't the whole enchilada.

1 - I haven't lived in Boston in years, and my current home state's per capita undocumented population is pretty much on par with OK's, so we're on the same page there (for the record, MA has a higher illegal population than OK per capita - doesn't change anything, but an interesting example of confirmation biases ... I had no idea). Our experiences are pretty similar.

2 - When was the last time you were actually in Maricopa County? I wouldn't categorize it as a "war zone" from my experience (we have a main office in Phoenix), although there are significant drug trafficking and other crime issues (kidnappings are primarily between illegals or the result of drug deals, from my understanding). It's bad, but not exactly on the streets in the same way as in Juarez, for example (which is drug-related anyway).

Here's the problem though: this bill does absolutely nothing, at least on face, to address the crime problems associated with illegals. So illegals who are pulled over will be deported? Is this actually a substantive or functional change? Is it one "worth" the potential rights violations? I would say it's a resounding "no" - I just don't see it working in a way that functionally and significantly reduces crime.

So now, you're instituting an iffy law that will likely be expensive to enforce, yet does absolutely nothing to stem the tide of illegals. The only thing that will stem the tide is making it preferable to enter legally rather than illegally - this law is a major step in the wrong direction.

It really is a 2010 War on Drugs.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Here's the problem though: this bill does absolutely nothing, at least on face, to address the crime problems associated with illegals. So illegals who are pulled over will be deported? Is this actually a substantive or functional change? Is it one "worth" the potential rights violations? I would say it's a resounding "no" - I just don't see it working in a way that functionally and significantly reduces crime.

So now, you're instituting an iffy law that will likely be expensive to enforce, yet does absolutely nothing to stem the tide of illegals. The only thing that will stem the tide is making it preferable to enter legally rather than illegally - this law is a major step in the wrong direction.

It really is a 2010 War on Drugs.

100% agree.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Kevin

RC, I haven't been to Boston, MA, but do you guys really have an illegal problem up there? This is an issue for which many of the negative aspects do not receive media coverage except through the unreliable right-wing fringe media. Here in Oklahoma, the problem isn't so bad. I deal with illegals, they're good folks, mostly pay payroll taxes under a fake SSN and above all and most importantly, they pay their attorney's fees.... every damn dime. Never had a bad experience. I understand that back home, attorneys can have them thrown in prison for failure to pay their fees, so that might be a cultural thing (wouldn't that be nice?).

At any rate, as you move South, the violence, drugs and kidnapping problems grow much, much worse. Maricopa County is pretty much an immigration war zone. Phoenix leads the world in the number of kidnappings per capita. The hospitals and social service programs are stretched thin, and no, I really doubt there are enough payroll taxes coming in from illegals to cover those expenses.

To reduce this issue to a racial/racist issue is maybe partially accurate, but it ain't the whole enchilada.

I would imagine that any large metropolitan area would have a considerable problem with illegal immigrants--not just the Southwest!

In NYC, there are a lot of illegal immigrants from Asia; what ends up happening a lot with them is people come to "visit" family members and never use the return portion of their trip. Where I grew up, our illegals are those from Eastern Europe who come to work at the tourist attractions in the summer and clean snowbird condos in the winter. In both locations, the illegal immigrants tax resources, and can make living conditions unsafe (in terms of people living 10-12 to a small apartment and causing electrical fires, which is pretty common in the winter).

But, you don't see the legislatures of either state passing laws that allow the arrest of anyone who "looks" like an illegal immigrant from China, the Phillipines, or the Czech Republic. Why is that?

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Other than the possible unconstitutionality of it?

Not so sure it is unconstitutional. Isn't that the point to all this? One would have thought that Kelo vs. New London would have been deemed unconstitutional but it was upheld and all that land was taken. Has anyone seen a mall, shopping center, etc. on this land? Nothing was built and the land owners and taxpayers were the real losers. You just never know on these things.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2004/2004_04_108

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I would imagine that any large metropolitan area would have a considerable problem with illegal immigrants--not just the Southwest!

In NYC, there are a lot of illegal immigrants from Asia; what ends up happening a lot with them is people come to "visit" family members and never use the return portion of their trip. Where I grew up, our illegals are those from Eastern Europe who come to work at the tourist attractions in the summer and clean snowbird condos in the winter. In both locations, the illegal immigrants tax resources, and can make living conditions unsafe (in terms of people living 10-12 to a small apartment and causing electrical fires, which is pretty common in the winter).

But, you don't see the legislatures of either state passing laws that allow the arrest of anyone who "looks" like an illegal immigrant from China, the Phillipines, or the Czech Republic. Why is that?

Yeah, there are tons of immigrants in the MD, DC, VA area. I live in a neighborhood in Baltimore that is one block off of a heavily weighted hispanic neighborhood. I'm quite sure that a big proportion are illegal immigrants (personally I don't like the word alien as it makes me think of space aliens or nonhumans.) Every once in awhile they raid the Peruvian chicken places in the area and find some undocumented workers, but nobody tries to blame the entire economy on this group.