Obama orders end to the practice of denying same-sex partners hospital visits

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm pretty sure Hitler made a similar decree at some point.

But really... I ask again. Was this even really a problem? Are we now just scoring free points with key constituencies?

I don't know whether this is a problem. I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, have quite a few gay friends and have never heard of anything like this happening here.

I really have zero problem with this rule as a matter of course, but does the President even have the power to do this? Isn't the spending power solely under Congress' control?

I guess to find out, we'll have to have a hospital who really wants to keep gay partners apart and is willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect their right to do so.

Yes it happens and yes, it is a problem. ICU rules almost always state "family only". If your same sex partner IS your family, they should be able to be there.

It is a federal government issue because because it is a civil rights issue.

All Presidents make executive orders. ALL. GW made 291 of them. Chill people.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Mind you, I'm all for all the visitors the patient wants. Last time I was hospitalized, I told the staff "NO visitors but my spouse and son" and told them no more than 1/2 hour each day -- but that's me. When I'm sick I don't want to see anyone.

And from reading the memo, I think this is really the point -- who the patient wants (or doesn't want) to come in should trump a hospital's "family only" rule. As I read, it does no more than say that if a patient wants a companion to whom he or she is not legally married or in a civil union with to come be able to visit, the hospital can't say "No, family only."

I can see some concern about the federal goverment being involved to begin with, but I can see the other side, too.

Originally Posted by AGDee

All Presidents make executive orders. ALL. GW made 291 of them. Chill people.

This. (Only I don't think this even rises to the level of an executive order).

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AGDee

All Presidents make executive orders. ALL. GW made 291 of them. Chill people.

And a lot of people didn't "chill" when GW made some of his "executive orders."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I can see some concern about the federal goverment being involved to begin with, but I can see the other side, too.

Yep.

It shouldn't just be about what people PERSONALLY agree with. People are quick to speak out when it's something they don't agree with. For everything that you (in general) personally agree with, there are people who disagree with it. More importantly, there are people such as myself who can think about the potential outcome of something regardless of whether we personally agree with it.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yep.

It shouldn't just be about what people PERSONALLY agree with. People are quick to speak out when it's something they don't agree with. For everything that you (in general) personally agree with, there are people who disagree with it. More importantly, there are people such as myself who can think about the potential outcome of something regardless of whether we personally agree with it.

THIS!

[KKGis4Me]

I think that this is a great thing he is doing! GO OBAMA!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm pretty sure Hitler made a similar decree at some point.

Just about the only decree Hitler made about Gays put them in the camps along side the Jews.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Where is "ordering" coming from? The actual memo "requests" that DHHS take three specific "steps."

Request sounds like an order if the DHHS wasn't planning on doing it in the first place.

He's done nothing more than exercise the authority every president has had for a long time. And if Congress thinks he overstepped his authority, they can always negate what he's done.

He's exercised more of these types of authorities than most Presidents in a looong time. This wouldn't be a big deal if it was a one-time event. But it's a repetition of "orders", condemnations of other branches of government which hold his power in check, and situations where his orders supercede Constitutionality.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Request sounds like an order if the DHHS wasn't planning on doing it in the first place.


He's exercised more of these types of authorities than most Presidents in a looong time. This wouldn't be a big deal if it was a one-time event. But it's a repetition of "orders", condemnations of other branches of government which hold his power in check, and situations where his orders supercede Constitutionality.

So you say....give some data. If you look at AGDs post, Bush made a lot of executive orders. It's the right of the president to do so. Just because you don't like what he does doesn't mean he's doing anything out of the ordinary.

[starang21]

has guantanamo closed yet?

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So you say....give some data. If you look at AGDs post, Bush made a lot of executive orders. It's the right of the president to do so. Just because you don't like what he does doesn't mean he's doing anything out of the ordinary.

By my count, Obama has issued 47 executive orders. (I simply counted the ones on the White House website. Mind you, Bush did 291 over 8 years. Obama's on pace to do it in little more than 5, perhaps 6.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...009-obama.html
http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...ders/2010.html

And more importantly, I suppose, I find Bush to be rather dictator-ish himself.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

And more importantly, I suppose, I find Bush to be rather dictator-ish himself.

But...OMG...Obama is supposed to be better than GW...like...OMG...people praised Obama before he even got started and before he even got a chance to prove himself...like...OMG...is this another political lesson learned? OMG...like...OMG.

[AGDee]

Well, if your political beliefs are diametrically opposed to Bush's and in line with Obama's, he is better. He made several executive orders almost as soon as he took office to reverse some that Bush had made. That was good with me because I didn't like the ones that Bush had made. Obviously, if you don't agree with his basic philosophies, you're not going to like the President, no matter who he is.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Well, if your political beliefs are diametrically opposed to Bush's and in line with Obama's, he is better. He made several executive orders almost as soon as he took office to reverse some that Bush had made. That was good with me because I didn't like the ones that Bush had made. Obviously, if you don't agree with his basic philosophies, you're not going to like the President, no matter who he is.

Exactly. This entire thread has been a d'uh moment.

To add some perspective, I am gay. Gay marriage was only recently made legal in DC. However, even if I do get married here, my marriage is only recognized in those jurisdictions which have it or recognize it.

There are something like a thousand rights which go along with "marriage" -- gay marriage itself is a victory for me because being legally married ensures that my spouse is my next of kin.

Imagine having to do a thousand different things, paperwork, living wills, briefs, etc, etc in order to get the same things that another married couple would get just by being married.

Argue whether he's a dictator if you want. You have that privilege to do so if you've never had to worry about what you'd do when the time came to get married, "married," or whatever your locality deems it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Well, if your political beliefs are diametrically opposed to Bush's and in line with Obama's, he is better. He made several executive orders almost as soon as he took office to reverse some that Bush had made. That was good with me because I didn't like the ones that Bush had made. Obviously, if you don't agree with his or her basic philosophies, you're not going to like the President, no matter who he or she is.

Interesting.

Actually, I don't believe that Presidents (or any politician) are in office to be "liked," regardless of whether I agree with their basic philosophies. "Liking" politicians typically undermines the ability to call them on their bullshit and tell them to fuck off when necessary. That mirrors how I feel about people "liking" particular political parties.